The Trump press conference from Thursday, February, 16, 2017, revealed a surprising truth: Trump, for all of his instincts and obvious intelligence, is charmingly and patriotically naïve about the nature of the United States Government and the Media. Trump’s revelation about the Media and its willingness to report anything, even if it is counter to the interests of the country , illuminated that Trump was initially ingenuous regarding the nature of the Political Press. In that same thought, Trump realizes there are parties within the United States Government itself willing to leak information, even if it sets off diplomatic skirmishes, heightens tensions or even sparks wars, for their own personal gain or to further their own petty ends.
I was shocked because all this equipment, all this incredible phone equipment — when I was called out on Mexico, I was — honestly, I was really, really surprised.
But I said “you know, it doesn’t make sense. That won’t happen” but that wasn’t that important a call, it was fine, I could show it to the world and he could show it to the world, the president who’s a very fine man, by the way. Same thing with Australia. I said “that’s terrible that it was leaked” but it wasn’t that important. But then I said to myself “what happens when I’m dealing with the problem of North Korea?”
What happens when I’m dealing with the problems in the Middle East? Are you folks going to be reporting all of that very, very confidential information, very important, very — you know, I mean at the highest level? Are you going to be reporting about that too?
Even though it would be patently against the interests of the country for the Media to publish Trump’s detailed plans (by way of example) on handling potential North Korean belligerence, in this age of Media as shit-flinging Opposition Monkeys, is there any doubt it would be published anyway? For Trump, however, he assumed even the Media would not be so debased. He expected what we used to be able to expect of most Citizens: despite our political differences, we are all still Americans who want what is best for the country and you are an American first and a journalist second. Trump optimistically assumes even journalists have a sense of civic responsibility. At least, he did. I doubt he feels that way any longer.
The second revelation is found in Trump’s open wonderment of, “you know, it doesn’t make sense. That won’t happen.” What the President is saying is he’s “honestly…really, really surprised” that members of the Deep State would leak private and classified phone calls to the press. Or, to put it more bluntly, the members of the Deep State would commit felonies in open insubordination of their new Executive. I believe it genuinely shocked Trump to learn that not every member of the Deep State would blanch at acting against the interests of their (nominal) boss, the President of the United States. Even for the most cynical among us, it is at least surprising that the Intelligence Community, bequeathed with special privileges under the guise of “national security”, used surreptitiously obtained information to put out a political hit on someone they simply did not care for. That is why Trump is right, and the Media and the Left (but I repeat myself) are wrong: the big story here is the leaker or leakers, who are abusing their power and taking advantage of a trusting polity to actively subvert a peaceful, lawful election.
Trump was akin to the squishy centrist Soccer Parent one encounters on Facebook who says things like, “the government is just there to help us” and “they would never use your information to do THAT!” I sincerely hope he has been disabused of that notion and ruthlessly removes the leakers from any levers of power and, if appropriate, sends them to prison.
I now humbly submit myself to the Commentariat for evisceration.
Luckily for you I let one of the girls borrow my Eviscerator.
It’ll be interesting to see how Trump comes out of his presidency.
OH GOD, A TRUMP THREAD! What’s next, trans bathrooms?
Food trucks…run by refugees…who take bitcoin…
What happens when we have quantum computers and a quantum computer can create an encryption that is unbreakable while at the same time, another quantum computer can break any encryption? Does that mean that there are no more government secrets, or that only government will own quantum computers? I know which scenario government would prefer.
Superman >> Jesus.
Post-quantum cryptography
Google is experimenting with it.
Perhaps all this hubub with the leaks and government scandal will lead to an epic porno name as in times past. Has Deep State been made yet?
I suspect the leakers believe government should have the power to imprison leakers, so I wouldn’t shed any tears for them. But, the better approach would be for Trump (and everyone) to realize that the government doesn’t do anything that necessitates secrecy.
I don’t mean it *shouldn’t* do anything that necessitates secrecy. I literally mean that it *doesn’t* do anything that necessitates secrecy. Trump could have an open conversation with the president (or whatever they have) of South Korea about assasinating Kim Jong-un, and that would be fine. The short term operational details of such an action should be secret, in the short term. But having the discussion out in the open would be a good thing. Same with any discussion about how to approach Russia, or Mexico, or the Middle East. Same with negotiating trade agreements. Same with counter-terrorist activities.
Government secrecy is a fucking reindeer game, propped up by spy novels and most Americans’ pathetic belief that they live under the rule of smarter, more capable leaders.
As I said in one of yesterday’s threads, the authorities like to tell us that if you’ve done nothing wrong, you should have nothing to hide. But the state seems to have a hell of a lot that they want to hide.
Yep. How does that Talking Heads song go? “Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.”
It seems to me you’re contradicting yourself, because you are saying the “short term operational details” should be secret. I agree! However, for that to mean something, you have to enforce it with men with guns and prisons and all that noise.
I agree those things should be secret, and I believe disclosing those things, were they found out, is contrary to the essence of being a an upstanding citizen.
What surprises me is that after watching Bush invade a country most likely to get personal revenge and then 8 years of the petty, nastiness of Obama whose motive was no different Trump still thought that government hacks had a scintilla of patriotism in them or the interests of the country at heart.
Naivety indeed. He is a smart guy. I expect he will learn quickly. I also expect someone to go to prison over those leaks.
Maybe using those two dead horses as examples wasn’t the best choice.
In the circles Trump runs in he surely knows that nearly everyone who goes into congress goes in with barely above average income and leaves a multimillionaire. The man can add two and two, cant he?
While she is a remarkable example in her blatancy surely he didn’t think Hillary was an outlier?
Perhaps his naivety was feigned?
Possible. I keep thinking that, here’s a guy who wrote a book called The Art of the Deal, is a successful enough business man that he must’ve dealt with dishonest and scheming people in negotiations, made it a point to talk about the reality of buying political influence, and yet seemed surprised by the IC leaks.
Maybe it was feigned, and there’s a strategy here. At the very least, openly asking the questions gets those thoughts out there to the public.
I may not like Trump much. But, any exposure of the Deep State and government abuse is good. Plus, so many people underestimated him, I’m not going to do it myself.
but like i said, i count myself as deeply cynical as anybody and even i was surprised. i’m not the only one: nick gillespie and eli lake expressed genuine surprise on the reason podcast. if you manage to shock the jacket, you did something fucked up.
I’m always hesitant to ascribe motives like that, with the notable exception of Clinton dropping a rocket or two right at a critical moment in the news cycle during the scandals.
If Obama had stuck to the line, “ISIS is a junior varsity team,” and acted accordingly, and if Obama were actually the anti-military guy portrayed by Team Red, we’d be in about seven fewer wars right now.
I see no reason to expect better decision making with the recent change in the White House.
True, I am speculating. All of the motives for invading Iraq dont really make sense in hindsight. They just dont justify what he did. “Saddam tried to kill my daddy” doesnt ring quite so hollow, but of course I dont have a crystal ball to read people’s minds.
With Obama it seems a lot clearer. He never bothered offering fake justifications.
The motive for the endless “Hunt the Jihadi” that is played out everywhere the camels roam is that American Presidents understand that W used the only “We could never have seen this coming” card that they will ever get to play. If AQ, ISIS, or the People’s Front of Judea manage to ever land another 9/11 style attack in CONUS, it might lead to impeachment and will certainly lead to a lost election.
That’s the politician’s fear, and hundreds of dead soldiers, thousands of dead foreigners, and billions of dollars is a small price to pay to keep their worst fear from coming true.
Anyone else find it amusing that the “wars” killed twice as many Americans as 9/11 did and we don’t appear to be any safer than pre 9/11?
If Hitler is in Hell level 10, 9 is reserved for the rest of the politicians.
The saddest part of that is that most of these attacks could have been stopped without extraordinary effort.
*I see where the blind sheik, a man who should have died from tripping and hitting his head on a bullet in 1990, died in prison at 79 yesterday.
You boys are doing a bang-up job.
1/4 of them were. And it took less than an hour to come up with a solution. There will never be a commercial airliner used as a weapon again. All without government assistance.
Thank god we spent $5T, 6800 soldiers, 43,000 enemy soldiers, and up as many as 200,000 civilians, just to create ISIS.
“Thank god we spent $5T, 6800 soldiers, 43,000 enemy soldiers, and up as many as 200,000 civilians, just to create ISIS.”
There’s no such thing as blowback! You Glibertarians! People just love you more when you bomb their wedding parties and children’s hospitals. Well, at least when it’s us, cause we’re MURIKA, FUCK YEAH! Also, we nuked Japan. Do you see any Jap ninja jihadis running around? NO!
I rest my case.
My apologies. By ‘You boys” I didn’t mean you Frank. I meant those at the helm who are pushing this bullshit WOT.
I do remember getting a mint on one timber sale and finding that plywood had gone up to $100 per sheet. Apparently the govt bought up the plywood supply for reconstruction efforts in Iraq. I also discovered that Bush and Cheney had bought a shit ton of stock in plywood companies before the invasion.
No worries, Suthen, I knew what you meant.
“The saddest part of that is that most of these attacks could have been stopped without extraordinary effort.”
Yep. The cure for terror is the revival of the American militia. Some jumped up ISIS wannabe wandering down to the shopping mall with a Kalashnikov should immediately be under fire from people with sidearms, and shortly thereafter the store keepers should have the long arms in action.
“Charming” is the last word I would use to describe General Cheeto’s worldview.
you probably think that cheeto thing is really clever and edgy. you’re wrong.
Even for the most cynical among us, it is at least surprising that the Intelligence Community, bequeathed with special privileges under the guise of “national security”, used surreptitiously obtained information to put out a political hit on someone they simply did not care for.
No it’s not. Using classified intel to obtain a certain outcome is literally what the intelligence community does.
Also: I request a comment preview button.
I want to know if my government is breaking the law. If it takes the “intelligence community” to bring government crimes to light, via a free press, so be it. Isn’t “leaking” just another name for what made Snowden and Manning and Assange libertarian heroes?
Snowden’s leaking protected the peoples interest. The guys who leaked Flynn’s phone calls were protecting their own interests.
Also: What crime did Flynn commit? Talking with Russia isn’t a crime.
You’ve already absolved Flynn of any crimes? I don’t know if he broke the law. Do you? How? That’s what investigations and hearings and, if necessary, trials are for — to determine the truth. It’s telling that the Trump Administration cut him loose after the just the whiff of impropriety, but Trump’s focus on information (leaks) and not potential crimes is most revealing.
I didn’t absolve Flynn of any crimes, I asked if he committed any. So far, I’ve seen nothing that makes me suspect he did, only innuendo from people who hate Trump — which seems to be the motivation behind the leaks.
The FBI looked into this and said no evidence of any crime.
Yeah, I know, but still.
Pretty sure there was some stuff already saying he didn’t break any laws. And I agree that the leaking itself isn’t that important. That the intelligence community will use their powers for personal vendettas is the alarming thing. Not a NEW thing, but I wish people like Greenwald with the rep would highlight that their being “rogue” has been the status quo for a while now.
“the intelligence community will use their powers for personal vendettas”
How do you know that anyone in the “intelligence community” is doing this for “personal vendettas”? That’s sounds a bit partisan to me, if not paranoid, in a persecution complex sort of way.
Its worth noting that both Brennan and Mike Morrell wrote editorials during the campaign describing Trump as a “threat to national security“.
And those 2 guys controlled hiring at the CIA for the past 8 years. Lots of their people are in charge of departments
That’s not a particularly paranoid assumption. and it explains a lot of the leaking that’s happened so far.
*sniff sniff*
Hmmmm.
They don’t need to investigate Flynn’s call with the Russians.
They have the transcript of the call.
I guess that’s why the FBI let it out that he didn’t commit a crime.
The investigation is to find out who excatly did commit a crime by leaking it to the press.
“It’s telling that the Trump Administration cut him loose after the just the whiff of impropriety, ”
some people believe in honesty. it’s a big change from the administration who brought you Susan Rice and her lies, Holder and his gunrunning and contempt of congress, and Clinton’s Cash for Acccess scheme, but you’ll get used to it.
seriously leftists are never happy. if he had kept him, you’d be bitching about that. he fires him, you’re still complaining.
I think the second one is the most important. The leaking doesn’t really matter to me – that seems more like a boon to have a leaky government, even if it’s petty.
The idea that it’s wrong to have contact with the outside? That’s some Orwell level stuff.
Isn’t “leaking” just another name for what made Snowden and Manning and Assange libertarian heroes?
____________
For me the difference is that they put their name on it. Snowden, Assange, and Manning are known worldwide, and the price they have paid for doing what’s right is known worldwide. They also did document dumps. They didn’t tell people what happened, they showed them, with proof.
IF some CIA analyst had resigned, putting his name in the Post, uploading the audio of Flynn’s phone calls and said “there it is, the people can judge. I have retained counsel and will defend myself in court against the charges that I have broken the law.” that would be something entirely different from what actually happened.
You’re demanding the resignation of any government employee who passes along information to the press? These people should become martyrs? The whole idea of anonymous interaction between government employees and the outside world is somehow immoral, because the information-sharers choose to remain anonymous? Is Viking1865 your real name?
It rather lends a sense of doing what’s right if someone says “Here is evidence that the government is doing shitty things with which I disagree, and I won’t be a part of it anymore” rather than “I’m going to let this get out to the world because it will hurt the administration but I’m going to stay where I am in anonymity in case there’s more I can hurt the administration with.”
No, you’re the one who brought up Snowden, Assange, and Manning and questioned why many regard them as libertarian heros. I explained why they have that reputation, and why the anonymous Flynn leakers are not the same thing at all.
“The whole idea of anonymous interaction between government employees and the outside world is somehow immoral, because the information-sharers choose to remain anonymous?”
Burn that fucking strawman.
I doubt you would get much disagreement on that. What troubles me is the selectiveness with which they use these leaks. It doesnt look much like their motive is to shine light on the crimes committed by our government.
I know you’re not “John,” but are you a mind-reader?
we get it, cuffy: you’re a democrat. leaking is a felony, not that leftists care about lawbreaking.
flynn was cleared by the fbi, and you cannot justify leaking by saying a certain conversation maybe possibly be crime because any damned thing *might* be a crime. if you’re going to abuse your trust and commit a felony, you need to be pretty damn sure it’s a crime, not something that can be cleared as a nothingburger by the fbi in 48 hours.
You know you’re probably interacting with shriek, right?
I’d just back away slowly and watch him self-destruct.
oh christ i had no idea. keep it as a whetstone for me. my writing and rhetorical skills are hella rusty
That’s ok. Here, enjoy.
“Also: I request a comment preview button.” Seconded.
I always find the most profound political scientists on youtube.
TL;DR Version: Good things Hitler did: Free stuff, infrastructure projects, ‘invented’ a highway, Olympic stuff, anti-smoking, pumping money into the economy by constantly borrowing from Western Europe basically guaranteeing that Germany would either go bankrupt or invade to void their debts.
Ah, Wehraboos.
Have I been using that term wrong? I thought Wehraboos were the people who say “the Wehrmacht did nothing wrong and were one of the deadliest fighting forces on the planet, their strength and courage should be honoured”.
I have known a number of guys who were in the Wehrmacht circa wwII. Most of them gave less than a half of a shit about politics or war and were pressed into service. My grandfather had a timber contract with the army during the war – he used POWs as labor. He said the prevailing opinion amongst them was “We dont want to destroy the US, now that we see it we want to live here. Please dont send us back.”
The problem with the whole ‘Manstein defense’ (i.e. the Wehrmacht were apolitical and just doing their jobs fighting the war, avoiding the whole atrocities thing, which was the SS) is that it ignores things like the Wehrmacht massacring Jews and Slavs throughout Eastern Europe. I’m sure there’s plenty of guys who avoided activities like that, but the institution itself was not some apolitical organization, which is what the Wehraboos argue.
Wouldn’t those be the guys who are into this?
Hey, don’t talk shit about Girls und Panzer.
Pravda best girls.
Pravda best tanks, Kay best girl.
I feel “Weheraboo” isn’t really wehranted unless they also idolize Imperial Japan.
I think this was parody.
Does this mean the left is going to welcome Hitler back into the fold eventually? I have kinda been expecting that but didn’t think it would happen until they finished using him to demonize their political enemies.
I just tried to post a comment at H&R. Guess what happened? Shite!
I am agog.
There are ointments that can fix your gog.
Anyway, it was a reply to a AlmightyJB post about getting rid of all politicians and what to do with all the empty buildings. He suggested selling it to Disney. I have an alternate proposal. We wall off the entire city and leave the outer subway access points, like Greenbelt as access points. Then we turn the entire thing into the world’s biggest pub crawl. We turn every single bureaucracy into a bar with a parody theme of the former bureaucracy. We provide pirate themed golf carts as transportation for the pub crawl. If you reach the capital building, you’ve finished the pub crawl. I think we should also outfit the pirate themed golf carts with non-lethal cannons (need help coming up with what’s loaded) and have Cart Wars Wednesday, which will be a weekly national holiday as we now have trillions of free dollars we aren’t wasting on bureaucracy.
Fascinating. I’m glad you were able to post it here.
Out of control bureaucracy or the world’s biggest pub crawl with pirate golf cart wars. You decide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqra2rr8Beg
No bras allowed inside the city?
Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5_nmp89JKs
I like this guy.
Hmm, maybe we should make it boobs optional? Consider, it could be used as a weapon in Cart Wars.
Suthen: Rolling down Pennsylvania Ave in dual side 2 cannon golf cart, loaded with the freshest Louisiana hog poop.
Hyperion: Rolls up beside Southen.
Suthen: *peering ahead* Hey, Hyp, that cart approaching, that looks like… I think it’s Lena Dunham and Chelsea…
Hyperion: Fuck, it is! Do you have an aim on them?
Lena: Hey Glibertarians, get a load of this *starts pulling up shirt*
Hyperion: Fuck, we have to retreat!
*Crusty rolls around corner and appears on Ave*
Crusty: Hey ladies, would!
Lena and Chelsea: *Distracted*
Suthen: Makes a turn, fires dead on.
*shrieking. Lena and Chelsea covered in pig poop*
Hyperoin: Damn, nice shot! We’ve taken them out… wait, they’re turning around.
Suthen: There’s someone on the back of the cart…
Hyperion: Oh GAWD, IT’S HILLARY! RETREAT!
Great. I was going to back your idea. Now you have ruined it for me. I was imagining nubile young beauties in bikini bottoms and wifebeaters racing around in their golf carts shooting each other with water balloons and pudding. Whooping, waving plastic swords, an eyepatch or two, the odd fake parrot on the shoulder and of course camel toes and NE’s that can cut glass. Now my mind is polluted with a vision of the wall of splotchy, pimply cottage cheese that is Hillary’s ass and Dunhams off center, mismatched areolae larger than her breasts.
*gag*
Oh yeah, those are in the story too! But there has to be some villains in the story, and who better than Lena and her evil sidekicks, the clinton hags!
*eviscerates comment*
Good take on it.
Were paragraphs 2-4 supposed to be “Quotes of Trump”?
yes.
I think that’s right – but you seem to think he *shouldn’t* have been surprised.
I think that’s a tad more cynical than is actually justified. People using the actual organs of the Federal govt for partisan purposes (like the CIA, or the IRS scandal, or the infighting between the FBI and DOJ re: the Clinton investigations) is a relatively new and strange thing.
So – if it did genuinely shock him, i think its reasonable to do so.
On the other hand, i think his media-relations strategy is also *designed* to constantly set himself up as being persecuted; make CNN et al out to be on a Witch Hunt, and remind the public at every opportunity that the press is full of partisan enemies. It helps him to reinforce this belief.
The media of course doesn’t pass on any opportunity to prove him right. What was it they ran with recently? Oh, the “Trump Plans to Use National Guard Oppress Mexicans“, or something.
Every time they do that, they simply make him less and less vulnerable when he DOES do something awful.
i actually agree with you, the more i think on it. the IC hit is so brazen and so abusive we shouldn’t think it normal, not permit it to be become ho-hum.
“Trump optimistically assumes even journalists have a sense of civic responsibility.”
What is supposed to be the “civic responsibility” of the press?
I don’t want to go down the road of the press being just a propaganda organ of the government.
Their civic responsibility is to tell the truth.
not leaking operational details, for a start. do you think the press should, ethically, pull a Geraldo and reveal details, the disclosure of which leads to the deaths of civilians or military?
i don’t. they’re americans first.