Greetings once again, fellow intrepid interlocutors of the insidious and the incredible, it is I, your humble author, once again delving into his personal DVD archive to bring you only the finest is bizarro horror filmmaking.
This week we take a look at the largely forgotten 1972 made-for-tv movie, Gargoyles. I’m afraid I don’t have much to regale you with in terms of production information; such is lost in the sands of time. And in the sands of New Mexico, where this beauty was filmed on a single camera in 18 days.
No dear readers, this film is remembered for one reason, and one reason only: the exemplary practical gargoyle effects, made for zero dollars and whipped up over only a few days time. Now when I say, “exemplary,” understand that I’m grading on a curve here. Obviously, they don’t touch what is seen in much larger budget films. The costume designer was a fellow named Tom Dawson, who also did the wardrobe and costume effects for Blazing Saddles and Arnold Schwarzenegger crap-fest End of Days. It is interesting, however, to note that one of two people tasked with creating and applying the gargoyle makeup is Stan Winston, in his first credited special effects role. If after perusing that link you find yourself still unimpressed with the fine work of Mr. Winston, then you can go right to hell – my reviews are not for the likes of you.
Our story begins with a voice over explaining that gargoyles are actually the earthly spawn of Satan himself and that they arise every 600 years to try and take over the planet. However, it appears humans whip dat azz pretty badly every time because the creatures are now on the verge of extinction. However, it does result in many of the world’s myths about monsters.
Cut to anthropologist Cornel Wilde (who, fun fact, was blacklisted during the HUAC era) taking a drive through the desert, with daughter Jennifer Salt in tow (Salt would later touch again on the world of the macabre as a producer for sometimes-great-sometimes-dumb FX staple American Horror Story). Interestingly, throughout the film, Jennifer always seems to wear her shirts tied up to show off her stomach, which is, I suppose, something of a welcome diversion. Coming across a barely-functional roadside tourist trap run by lovable old Uncle Willie, the drunken coot ushers them out back to show them his prized possession: a gargoyle skeleton hung up in his shed out back. Willie proceeds to tell the anthropologist (the character has a name, but does it really matter?) about how the Injuns in the area used to have a lot of stories about these and….you know what, it’s just the usual hokum spun out in crappy horror movies. I’m so damned sick of people acting like/assuming that a bunch of freaking dudes dancing around smoking peyote have some kind of magical powers or great insight into the universe that I lack because I wear pants. Fuck that noise.
Anyway, the titular monsters attack, killing Uncle Willie and driving Generic Anthropologist and Hot Daughter to seek refuge at a nearby roach motel run by horny drunk Grayson Hall (best known for her long-running stint as Dr. Julia Hoffman on the original Dark Shadows). Having escaped with the gargoyle skull from Willie’s shed and with audio recordings of the attack, our protagonists try to make sense of all the shenanigans and goings on. They are attacked again by two of the creatures trying to retrieve the skull, and once they have it, they flee across the road only for one of them to be hilariously run over by a semi. It comes out of nowhere and is really quite funny, because normally when you see the creatures running or attacking, they director uses a kind of weird slow-mo, so it cuts straight from that, to a damn truck coming out of nowhere and smacking one of them.
Running to the police station to report the latest attack, Hot Daughter pleads with the cops to believe her, and to release several dirt bikers they caught at the scene of Uncle Willie’s earlier that day (the lead biker being played by Scott Glenn, who is one of those guys whose name you don’t know but you’ll recognize him when you read through his IMDB). On her way back, she’s kidnapped by King Gargoyle…Bernie Casey?! I think that’d be racist today. You may know him from his work in Revenge of the Nerds or Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure, but because I’m me, I’ll always remember him from Suzanne Somers and Stacey Keach eco-horror film, Ants. Yes, I have that on DVD as well. Anyway, the actually pretty awesome looking head gargoyle takes Hot Daughter back to their cave, where he explains that 1) they’ve only been woke for a few weeks, 2) he’s taught himself pretty good English in that time, and 3) he likes to have chicks read stories about 15th century rapes out of scholarly books to him. We also see the gargoyle hatchery, where eggs literally half the size of the adults hatch the creatures, and we learn that the ones with wings (such as Casey and his female gargoyle consort) are “breeders”.
Generic Anthropologist convinces the cops and the local dirt bikers to help search for Hot Daughter, and the group is eventually assaulted by the gargoyles. The humans manage to kill a lot of them with shotguns and pistols, which really makes one wonder how the whole, “We’re going to exterminate humanity” thing is going to work out for the monsters. Scott Glenn goes in to throw gas around and burns the hatchery, and upon seeing him beset with gargoyles, Generic Anthropologist declares him dead and flees (he did the same to Uncle Willie earlier – seriously, the guy will decide you’re a lost cause within seconds of you running into any adverse circumstance). The supposedly thousands of eggs burn up from the two gas cans splashed around one room, and Bernie Casey, along with his consort, try to fly away with Hot Daughter to, I guess, rape the shit out of her, since it’s pretty clearly established that the monsters only produce offspring with each other. However, Generic Anthropologist makes a Quick Decision and uses a handy rock to bust the consort gargoyle’s wing, forcing Bernie Casey to abandon Hot Daughter so that he can fly away with his basic bitch. And…that’s it. They get away, they end.
The movie basically sucks, but really, if you have the 74 minutes to spare, it is honestly remarkable how good they do with the gargoyle costumes given what you know must have been incredible time and budgetary constraints. So kudos for that. Director Bill Norton went on to acclaim *coughbullshitcough* as the director of such masterpieces as More American Graffiti, and Hercules and the Amazon Women. If any of you have seen either of these, sound off in the comments.
Actually please don’t, nobody gives a shit.
On a parting note, apparently it’s not safe to trust the TCM website’s user-generated movie ratings, because holy hell, check this out. The lowest one is 4.31 out of 5.
Personally, I award Gargoyles 10 Pubic Hair Cartoons out of a possible 30. Keep track of the percentages here; 10 isn’t very good.
Comments
338 responses to “Reviews You’ll Never Use: Gargoyles (1972)”
Totally off topic, but IDGAF:
The Jungle Book was apparently a documentary.
I’ll say it again, they should have left her with the monkeys.
seriously, the guy will decide you’re a lost cause within seconds of you running into any adverse circumstance)
Respect. I hate when the whole team goes down because they attempt a rescue on a lost cause. JJ, have you watched Frogs with Sam Elliot? I feel you may appreciate it.
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0068615/
Watched it? I own it.
Thought you might.
What’s on juke box right now
https://youtu.be/FRVSSwJYqh0
Also, Hillary Clinton finally admits she lost due to her weakness as a candidate, her massive political baggage, and her lack of a coherent message.
PSYCH! She blamed Russia, Comey, Wikileaks, and misogyny, of course!
Stay classy, Hill.
I thought President Notmyfault was bad about everyone being wrong but him, she certainly kicks it up a notch…or ten.
Russia and Wikileaks were supposed to be the same thing. Given that they’re both bullshit, you’re left with Misogyny and Comey. And given she lost most white women, I think all she’s got is Comey. Which is a problem she would never have had if she hadn’t been trying to avoid Federal transparency laws.
But everyone uses personal email, duh! Yeah, no wonder she lost, Democrats have a really bad habit of believing that the entire population are complete morons.
Wait, so Herself says that Wikileaks stole the emails (does she know what an internal leak is?) but still claims that Russia was involved somehow?
Those pubes are too trimmed and neat to be seventies pubes. Seventies pubes were wild and untamed.
And unwashed if you hung out with a certain crowd.
For a second there I thought you were reviewing that badass Saturday morning cartoon with Keith David.
90’s action cartoons really spoiled us, didn’t they? Between Batman, X-men, and Gargoyles, we really had it good.
Batman The Animated Series is the Batman by which all other Batmen are judged.
Seriously, that was a good-ass show. I have most of it on dvd, and the movie Mask of the Phantasm.
Oh man… That was probably my favorite animated Batman movie of that era. You can’t even have a proper animated Joker without Hamil.
Established a ton of Batman mythos we take for granted nowadays too. Mr. Freeze as a sympathetic character, Harley Quinn, a ton of backstory details…
Bruce Timm knows what he’s doing. Most of the time.
Yep. I believe Montoya and Bullock were also original creations of that show, if I recall correctly.
I *think* you’re right. Man, solid AF cartoon. Might have to watch some tonight.
Bullock was introduced in the 70s , but you’re right about Renee Montoya.
She (Renee) was officially re-introduced in the New 52 in Issue 41 of Detective Comics following the Convergence event as Harvey Bullock’s new partner with her role as the Question having been officially retconned.
See, this is why I have no respect or time for superhero comics. Too much crap randomly being ended or started because of editorial whims or other garbage.
That’s why I had great respect for DC when they said “fuck it, let’s reboot everything and start from square one” with the New 52, but the fanboy tears were too much and eventually they un-rebooted (loaded from a back up universe?) and went back to the pre-Flashpoint universe with bits and pieces of other universes tacked on.
I’m friends with the owners of the local comic store, and they not only hated the New 52, they tell me over beers at the bar next door (extremely convenient for doing shots between gaming rounds) that the customers hated it with the passion of 1000 suns, and did nothing but bitch endlessly and loudly for months until it was undone.
Speaking of gaming, we played this all last Saturday, and it’s great. The app takes over as DM and every experience is randomized.
@John Titor: years ago, there was an up and coming third way comic publisher. Can’t remember the name, but you probably know who I’m talking about. Are they still around?
@DenverJ
You mean Image?
Image or some shit? I don’t know, I gave up on superhero comics when I was fairly young (15 or so) and started more just pursuing short lived comics that I really liked. It’s why Transmetropolitan remains my favourite comic, despite the fact that Warren Ellis is a mildly insane asshole.
I am the only person on the planet who loathes Harley Quinn?
…yes. Yes you are.
I don’t like what she became (sexpot), but I loved the character in BTAS.
Considering most of us were introduced to Harley Quinn at a young, close-to-puberty age, probably yes. I think she can be handled really poorly and be goddamn annoying as a result, but her dynamic with the Joker is great when done correctly.
Fair enough. Early HQ was tolerable, if only for the chemistry between Hamil and Arleen Sorkin.
But HQ as she exists now is cancerous.
Well yeah, welcome to the state of comic books in the 21st century. I wouldn’t even complain if they just obliterated the idiotic crap Marvel and DC have been spewing for years and started all over again (and this is BEFORE their stupid turns to the ‘social justice’ mindset).
Mixture of loathing and pity is the only correct response to her character in Batman: TAS. Yes, and a confused boner, fine.
She’s a fine character as designed by Timm/Dini in the show. Elsewhere…ugh. Even if you want eye candy, Talia, Ivy, Huntress, and Catwoman are already established and superior.
@HM They made Amanda Waller thin.
They made The Wall a supermodel. The fuck.
She’s quite tasty in the Arrow-verse as well.
HM, she looks like the intern that should be getting Waller’s coffee. Not Waller.
Don’t forget ExoSquad
Honest to god, that’s why I put the (1972) in the title. I realized people would confuse it with the much better, more well known property.
I briefly thought that was Phoebe (pronounced FOR- bee) Cates. Alas, no.
Jesus! not FOR-bee.
FOE-bee.
*spazz hands*
I want to watch this movie so much. You had me at Stan Winston.
If after perusing that link you find yourself still unimpressed with the fine work of Mr. Winston, then you can go right to hell – my reviews are not for the likes of you.
I love how Gojira draws the audience into the subject matter.
He’s not wrong though, if you’re not into Stan Winston, or his company’s work, you can go fuck yourself, you modern CGI troglodyte.
If I could fuck myself, I’d never leave the house.
No man, that is not what I was getting at. I fully appreciate the art of makeup in the olden times. When I was a kid I was fascinated with the old horror films. Boris Karloff and all that. I had to be horror film character every Halloween and took my makeup seriously.
My comment was meant to be a compliment to Gojiras writing style. Lighten up Francis.
I wasn’t going after you, I was more having a general bitch-fest at the lack of good practical effects nowadays. Nothing personal lad.
Seventies pubes were wild and untamed.
And sometimes encroached upon a significant portion of the upper inner thigh.
Maybe Gojira will review, Revenge of the Inner Thigh Beard.
I hope he flosses first.
That’s what the Inner Thigh Beard was. Nature’s floss.
I think I recently skipped right past this movie on some roku channel. If I stumble upon it again, maybe I’ll watch it.
Seventies pubes were wild and untamed
See, and this is why there needs to be a civilized middle ground between ‘wild and untamed’ and ‘boring and non-existent’. Bring back pubes dammit.
I think they should be shaved into cute little shapes, like a heart or a Playboy bunny.
Or, if they make use of the inner thigh beard, a Harley Davidson.
Lol, that’s pretty gross, dude.
All I ask for is a nice landing strip (especially for gingers), is that too much to ask?
especially for gingers
^This so much^
This whole thread is why TANFL.
But I whole heartedly agree.
Being unfamiliar with TANFL, I googled it. This was the top hit:
http://www.tanfl.com
Apropos, but maybe not what you meant?
There Are No Female Libertarians.
“There are no female libertarians”, shorter form of TIWTANFL.
Ahh.. Thanks guys
Me three.
Mike: It’s not, but I approve of that too.
i instantly imagined cornel west, then refreshed it to, “That Guy From The Naked Prey, Who I Think Played Football Somewhere And Totally Wasn’t Gay”
and then i was like, “wait a second that really was his name!?” did that guy make gargoyle movies? And yes, it is indeed the same guy.
Good call, I haven’t seen that one.
People who take film-classes end up watching that movie (or being told to) because i think there is absolutely no dialogue for like…. most of the second half of the film. Its all “white man being hunted by savages/while avoiding death in the wilderness”. Its an example of good purely-visual storytelling, and editing for pacing, etc. Plus it was actually shot in africa for real on a low budget, but managed to be pretty good-looking regardless.
I rate it = 3 bones thru noses out of 4
I enjoy people who will go out on a limb like that in film.
Did you see Valhalla Rising?
Nope, but looks interesting. I have Bronson somewhere on a hard-drive, but haven’t watched it yet.
pssssh. sounds like cover for his secret gay life to me. Or, some conspiracy involving hitler.
But seriously, if you’ve never seen The Naked Prey – its the ultimate chase-scene. And I promise you there are absolutely no racial themes. at all.
Huh, after reading the IMDB, this sounds like a precursor element to the Italian cannibal film craze of the 70s & 80s.
I have Cannibal Holocaust, but that’s it. I should expand my collection in this area.
Since the OT on this one has already been breached with superhero stuff, anyone watch Super Mansion on Crackle? I thought the first season was good and perverse. Seems like the second season , they’ve been told to clean it up, and a lot of the nasty humor is gone.
No. I’ve been watching Iron First on the Netflix. I like.
Really? My wife and I found it boring in the extreme.
There are hardly any fights, and a huge amount of the series revolves around his super hero performance issues. Just take a little blue pill and get the fuck over it, and give that hot-ass Asian chick your Iron Fist.
And Claire? “Hey I totally know people who have fought these demon-worshipping ninjas before, and you shouldn’t do this alone. So instead of calling the guy I said I know and who would totally help you, I’ll just go with you myself because that’s totally just as useful as fucking Daredevil.”
We honestly thought Ward was the only interesting character. Still finished it so we’d be caught up for The Defenders.
Iron Fist’s true failing is the lack of a decent bad guy.
Spoiler: Davos becomes a decent enemy, but the Hand version in this stint sucked.
As a fan of ‘Heroes for Hire’ Iron Fist’s best comics were when teamed with Luke Cage.
Haven’t seen it, might check it out and be disappointed with you in the near future.
Good thing P Brooks backed me up.
It’s mostly by the same guys who did Robot Chicken, so I figured it’d be uneven, but the drop-of from S1 to S2 has been pretty remarkable. If you like warped humor and superhero stuff, you should probably like S1. S2, mebbe not so much.
I thought I smelled some Hollywood connections as soon as I saw Bryan Cranston as a major character.
Honestly I find the guys who start from nothing, like Archer or Venture Bros, tend to be better in the long run because they have a ‘vision’ and don’t give a fuck.
I was initially interested because i assumed it was Super Manson, where Charles Manson gains superpowers and goes on a murderspree through modern Hollywood.
Gil, I’ve done a real quick reading of Koba the Dread. Thought I’d watch a few Martin Amis interviews just to see what he’s about. That guy is a smug cunt.
He absolutely is. I still think its a very interesting book about a very interesting topic (*sort of half about Stalin, half about the british left’s wilful ignorance of Stalinism)
Definitely has some insight. Like so many people out there, he knows his subject matter well, but when it comes to Trump he turns into another simpleton spewing pointless talking points. You’d think maybe he’d be able to attack Trump on his actual week points, but no. It’s all, “He’s boorish.”
Week? That was *weak.
anyone watch Super Mansion
Yes, and I’m afraid you’re right. Haven’t really gotten hooked into season 2. Also, the “gay married” Saturn and Groaner was like some sort of weird outreach effort.
Either an attempt to regain their writing edge or a total shoehorn for PC. Saturn and Groaner being secret buds while ostensibly arch-enemies was kind of amusing. Gay marriage? Eh, not so much.
They’d have done better to have them wanting to be married, but ‘society won’t allow it.’ Not because they were gay, but because society is unwilling to accept arch-enemies being married. The story lines from that dynamic (along with the irony) are a lot better.
Honestly, the fact that ‘superhero media’ hasn’t done a better gay relationship than Midnighter and Apollo says a whole bloody lot.
With all due respect for the homosexuals here, 70% of the gay men in America are complete pussies (the irony, right?). Nothing like Hemingway or Alexander the great. They affect a lisp, as limp wrist, and a cattiness that would make 14 yr old valley girls ashamed.
How the hell do you make a super hero or of that? “Gayman and his super power of talking shit about some stranger’s outfit!”
Midnighter and Apollo are pretty good example actually, but you’re right that we’re in need of some media exposure for some classic Spartan homosexuals.
I’m not sure if “we’re” in need of it, but the gay subculture certainly is. I’d feel more comfortable around gay guys if they weren’t convinced that, in order to be authentic, they have to be obnoxious assholes.
I’d bet that there are a lot of gay guys who don’t want to be Cher, and just want to be guys (who happen to like other guys sexually), without it having to be a whole production.
70% of the gay men in America are complete pussies
That’s adorably naive. 70% of the men you realize are gay would probably be a better statement, don’t forget most of the iceberg is under water.
@JT, I enjoyed Midnighter and Apollo to a point. Apollo was a bit two-dimensional even by comic book standards. App-using Midnighter going on dates that went…badly was endearing. I felt like his relationships with his friends like the bar keeper were the best parts of it (although him sexually harassing Nightwing for a few books was a close second).
I kind of liked the Key & Peele sketch about this issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c
Look at this way, if someone was asked to describe you in one sentence you, and “He’s the gay dude,” you kind of failed at life. Being gay should be an asterisk in life. Oscar Wilde is one of the 19th century’s greatest English writers, and Alan Turing created the whole field of Computer Science. At the end of the day, it’s just oh, and they were also gay.
I want to be described as, “The man could definitely eat pussy.” That would make me feel much better about my life than, “He did some really great work in quantum mechanics and molecular biology.”
Also, I have to say, You gay people are getting ripped off at the local gay bars.
They charge $5 for a bottle of Bud Lite. Those are strip club prices for straight people.
I am hooked on Zatoichi, the Blind
SwordsmanKilling Machine. There are a ton of episodes (subtitled) on youtube.It’s a good thing I run it through my phone and cast to roku; zod knows what sort of bizarre and abstruse suggested content I’d be getting.
The 2000-something movie with Takeshii Kitano is really good, too.
The Pubic Hair Cartoon scale goes from 3.5 being best to 10 the worst and 0 fucking pervert, right?
I’ve made it a running gag to change the rating system every week and make it increasingly cumbersome, but nobody ever says anything about it.
The percentages are always accurate as to how I want the movies to be rated, however – it isn’t just randumb.
Don’t stop being you!
Personally, I like the PHC scale. You can shave off points for leaky plot holes.
The only shaving should be the pussy symbols. See below.
I give this movie three quarters shaved PHC and one exposed genital wart.
I appreciate the gag, it’s about as useful as typical movie rating star scales. Which is to say not very.
Speaking of fucking awe-inspiringly bad teevee- has anybody watched Last Resort, about the rogue nuclear sub commander? Good grief what a preposterous tale. And the last two or three episodes run like the producers came into a writers’ meeting and said, “Well, there’s not gonna be a Season Two, and we’re outta money. Let’s wrap this thing up.”
Is it really season 1? Seems like it’s been around longer.
Shit, I watched the first episode and gave up.
Last Resort is on Amazon. If you watched something on regular teevee it was probably Last Ship, which has a somewhat similar premise, but a surface ship, IIRC, and after an outbreak. Though the outbreak plot was most of the first season, and I think they’re in season 3? I watched some of the recent season (mostly because I like Bridget Regan and she was a main character) and it was okay for popcorn tv.
Yes, you are correst. Last Ship, Last Resort, Last Call…it gets confusing.
I’ll go with a thumbs up for The Naked Prey.
I realize it’s an old film, but can’t we be more inclusive and use shaved pussies?
be more inclusive and use shaved pussies
STOP OTHERING ME.
I dont need a review of this movie. It is one of th efirst scary movies I remember seeing. I remember it well. It scared the hell out of us kids. It had a lot of stuff we had never seen before. Of course I saw the edited version on a 14″ B&W TV which actually contributed to its scariness.
Kids today will be saying the same thing about this movie when they grow up.
That fucking piece of shit is so transparently a sociopath…yeah, she’s scary alright. I am not a kid anymore but she scares the hell out of me. Had she won it would have been a disaster beyond our imagining. Her plan was to go full progtard hard lefty and cram it down the countries throat. It would have caused a shooting war.
I saw it on tv when I was a little kid, also.
Took a fair amount of vague Googling just using impressions from my memories before I found what the movie was, and ordered the dvd.
When I saw 1972 I thought for sure I would have seen it, but I don’t remember this film. I have vague memories of gargoyles on buildings coming to life in black and white. Not memories of gargoyles in the desert. I might be merging memories though. Ghost Busters and something else. Who knows.
Me too, saw it as a little kid and it scared the shit out of me. I always wondered what it was.
This movie gave me nightmares for a few weeks. I remember my big sisters watching it and I had to go around the corner and sit in the kitchen, because I was too scared to go to my room and too scared to be in the same room as the TV.
I remember loving this movie when I was 7 years old.
I was a huge fan of the shitty monster movies they played on Saturdays. ‘Creature Feature’ was usually Japanese monster stuff, and followed by ‘Movie Macabre’ which was Gothic Horror of the Hammer Film ilk.
Favorite Actor — Vincent Price, then Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee.
Later they started running ‘Seymour Presents’ which was a early version of Elvira.
Jeebus, Suthen. That’s spooky. Exactly what I remember.
I watched it from my mother’s lap – or, more accurately, DIDN’T watch it, or most of it, as I had my little hands over my face during practically the entire thing. My mom, God rest her soul, would tell me when the monsters were gone from the screen so that I could take my hands down.
I seem to vaguely recall that it played on the same night as one of those Dr. Quatermass films – which also creeped me out a bit even though it didn’t have a ‘monster face’ to terrify me.
Fifty rockets launched into Syria from American destroyers, per Twitter. Some military base. Welp.
Prolly will fix everything I’m sure.
So all the calls of “Trump doesn’t care about all the dead kids because he’s not doing anything!!’ will switch to “omg Trump getting us into war over dubious intel!!” in 3… 2… 1…
Apparently Alex Jones, infowars et al. are hot on the false flag explanation. Which, honestly, isn’t entirely unpersuasive. What possible reason would Assad have for stoking international ire like this? Anyway, I fully expect the nuttier lefty outfits to be running with the false flag story tomorrow.
In fact if I were a troll I’d be baiting democraticunderground right now. “TRUMP WAS DUPED!”
I’d agree, except this may have been on orders from his pal Putin, who wants to see 1) the US involved in more pointless wars in the ME, and 2) more refugees flooding Europe.
So much for one key advantage Trump had over Hillary – “at least he doesn’t have a war boner like her!”
Seriously, in Washington people tell you that going to war makes you a Statesman/Stateswoman. Sure, the dumb hicks don’t appreciate the absolutely urgency of intervention, but once a war gets started, the hicks want to support the troops so they get behind you. So you can safely disregard anything the people in flyover country think. I mean, if we’d listened to the hicks we wouldn’t have gone into WWII!
I was of the opinion that Syria was not our circus, not our monkeys. But you break it, you bought it probably now applies.
Putin wants it, Putin can have it.
Well, could. It’s ours now.
Great…stupid attempts at attacking the Assad regime (likely as a false flag due to the chemical weapons strike by possibly non-government actors).
Consider that ‘strike two’ on the Trump Administration score card.
Hopefully is a warning to Assad to knock it off with chem weapons.
Hopefully, the Congress will, again, say no to war with Syria.
Jesus, Russia has nukes, people! Nukes!
Yeah, I don’t get the thinking behind that. Assad used chemical weapons, so we launched missiles at an airstrip. Maybe we can bomb an aspirin factory. Tossing bombs around for retaliation instead of for strategic reasons seems psychopathic. If that airstrip was so in need of a good bombin’, why did you wait until someone used chem weapons and *Cui bono* you don’t even know who did it yet.
Because the attack was supposedly delivered by air. A lot of the civilian casualties in Syria are caused by attacks from the Syrian Air Force. Of course, a lot of civilian deaths are caused by attacks from the air by our Air Force, too. But I guess that’s different.
The attack is either going to be a symbolic gesture or it will escalate an already intractable shitstorm. If it’s symbolic, how is it going to do anything towards ending the conflict? Literally more fuel on the fire and not an inch closer to seeing this wind down.
Yeah, I talked about this earlier in another article. Best case, it’s a punitive strike for the gas attack and not the start of a military escalation in the country. It won’t do anything to end the conflict, it would simply be a warning to Assad to not use non-conventional weapons again.
Particularly since the freakout about chemical weapons are just “eww that’s icky.” Biological weapons are self replicating, nuclear weapons are obviously incredibly destructive for their size. There are legit reasons to drop the hammer on anyone who uncorks those particularly genies.
But a non-persistent chemical agent just kills people, just like high explosives. There’s no practical or even humanitarian difference between using a bomb filled with GB on a group of people and using a napalm strike.
The idea that the US can claim some kind of moral high ground because they’re only killing people with good old fashioned explosives and not icky nerve agents always made me laugh a bit.
I agree, but find it hard to laugh about it.
Apparently an air base. I wonder how many Russian Jets just got smoked. This should be interesting. Not in a good way.
Reports I am hearing – Ruskies were given a heads up to get their people out, presumably the Ruskies told the Syrians. Likely no casualties. We took pains not to his the Russian planes or the sarin gas storage. Everything else, including runways; toast.
I would have like to have been an observer. I bet 59 Tomahawk 1K pounders would make one hell o f a fireworks show.
I have no idea what the fuck is going on right now. Probably for the best.
Why Do So Many People Think I’m a Conservative?
I don’t like Paul McCartney’s spoken-word performances.
Who is this guy and why should I care?
He’s really concerned about what you might think of him.
How do I answer that? He shuns these descriptors – Satanist, Occultist, Civic Nationalist, Ethno Nationalist, Libertarian, Republican. He seems to like “Pagan” more than the others.
Weirdo
He’s come on my radar because he’s leading a coalition of Youtubers against their demonetization of controversial content creators.
I remember Razorfist pointing this guy out as their fairly apolitical leader.
“” controversial content “”
yeah, fuck that.
…. i found it sort of semi-interesting, and was hoping it would lead somewhere, but then he started talking about whether he’s really a “Satanist” or merely a “pagan” and i sorta started thinking “he’s sort of a fucking loser….”
…but as i was typing this, he starting talking about Gary Johnson, so i guess i’ll listen to a little more.
“He’s sort of a loser…”
“…he started talking about Gary Johnson,”
So he really didn’t change the subject substantially.
Fifty rockets launched into Syria from American destroyers, per Twitter
No boots on the ground. Totally not an Act of War.
You must have missed the memo – Obama isn’t the president anymore, so everyone can go back to calling our Middle Eastern fiddlefarting “wars” and complaining about them.
Before, we were “trying to contain the situation”. Now we’re the aggressors, basically just like Hitler.
I actually heard an NPR host say something about the US “having boots on the ground now” a few weeks ago. It already happened.
Last I heard we had about 300 “advisers” there. Not sure how accurate that is.
We’ve had between ~500-3,000 people in Syria in various capacities since…. 2015?
this discusses a bit of the mendacity surrounding “official” #s. They basically only count those serving in a very-narrowly defined capacity = support personnel, intelligence, contractors, etc…. don’t show up.
but there were different reports in 2016 specifying that Obama had approved “X hundred more” specifically for syria. if you added up those from 2016 alone, it was around 800 ‘boots on the ground’.
As someone who’s been pissing and moaning about our intervention into Syria since ~2011…
…i have to ask = was it less of an act of war when our planes were flying over their country and bombing things, or when we were openly sending shoulder-fired missiles to the rebels?
We crossed the line a long time ago, and it has only been the media’s willingness to pretend that everything Obama did was sprinkled with “ITS OK”-magic-dust that has left the general public with the impression that we “weren’t already at war”.
its definitely turning what was a fake-war of limited-engagement into a real hot-momma of “who knows what’s going to happen next”
Jesus this pisses me off. This was like, one of the top three reasons not to vote for Hillary.
I am tired of my country being at war with the fucking iron age barbarians in the middle East.
You know what? Fuck it. Either bring the troops home and let that shitty corner of the globe suffocate on its own shittiness, or just turn the whole fucking area into a radioactive sheet of glass.
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Keeper of the Two Most Sacred Glass Parking Lots (PBUH) is a rather unimpressive title.
That’s clever and I want to laugh. But I am so disappointed. I figured that, if anybody would tell the war mongers to fuck off if it wasn’t America’s problem, it would be Trump.
It’s the fucking media. “Oh my God, bad people did bad things, it falls on America to fix it!”
Fuck fuck fuck.
Eisenhower warned us. Romney proved it. And, yet, we still spend money and American lives to enrich the war mongers.
Fuck!
What the fuck does Syria have to do with our national security? Fuck all, unless it causes a war with Russia WHO HAS NUCLEAR ICBMS?!?!? That will effect our national security quite a bit.
Fucking stupid ass orange fucking clown. You had one job: DON’T BE THE ESTABLISHMENT!!!!!
“hopefully you’re at least tingling with drugs or ALCOHOL”
Just alcohol. No drugs tonight. There’s always tomorrow though.
was it less of an act of war when our planes were flying over their country and bombing things, or when we were openly sending shoulder-fired missiles to the rebels?
Just as long as we didn’t hack their elections.
Honestly- our “foreign policy” seems to be an intentional “All Quagmire, All the Time” affair. It’s depressing.
I’m past depressed. I’m ready for armed fucking insurrection.
Who the fuck authorized these amateurs to use my tax money to send my son to war to make the ambassadors to the UN feel important? Because, if you think anything else is being accomplished, then you’re stupider than they are.
Fuck. I’m not feeling a lot of love for human intelligence right now.
Not recognize Scott Glenn’s name? What kind of movie reviewer are you Gojira? And what kind of crowd do you take us for?
He’s obviously best known for playing Glaeken in ‘The Keep’.
I wonder if the “PRO RUSSIAN!” narrative in the media has gotten Trump to say, “screw it, let’s bomb some Russian allies and show the media is full of shit.”
I didn’t think of that. Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. If the anti-establishment president still gets pressured into wars that are BAD IDEAS, then what the fuck chance do we have?
Goddammit. I’m really pissed.
I think it’s probably that Trump wants to show the world that he’s a tough guy. Unlike Obama with his pathetic red line shit. Maybe it’s direct messsage intended for North Korea. Anyway, I fucking hate it. No good can come of this.
What makes you think he was “pressured”?
Not sure if it was pressure. But someone obviously advised him on it and encouraged him to act. Trump wants to be seen as a man of action. I say be prepared for him to do lots more stuff that libertarians are going to hate. Regime change is such an idiotic idea that any intelligent person could have figured that out by now. When has that ever worked out for us?
Panama and Grenada.
Jus’ sayin’
Well Grenada was literally just reversing a Commie coup. The society and culture of Grenada did not want to be a Cuban satellite, they just needed the muscle to kick the Reds out.
Panama is slightly more nuanced then that, but the Panamanians didn’t necessarily want to be a narco state.
It’s when you start thinking “Man, these Arab Muslims with a long long history of autocratic rule must secretly want Western democracy, and I’m just the man to give it to them!” that things get squirrelly.
Indeed. Culture matters. And/or being willing to reduce a civilization to complete and utter rubble, a la Germany and Japan, and rebuilding it from the ground up.
Yup, and musing on “toughness”.
No one ever called Reagan a pussy for pulling out of Lebanon following the Marine bombings. Because it so self evidently was not, in fact, a pussy. Bush The Elder, for all my issues with him from a policy standpoint, had killed and seen friends die, and was perfectly content to accept status quo ante following the Gulf War. It seems to be the weak and the feckless man who desire to kill by proxy in order to show they are real men.
Ok, yes. I should have been more specific. When has that worked out for us in the Middle East? A completely different culture than the Latin Americans, who are just a hell of a lot like us.
There’s not a difference from a moral standard, but from a practical standard, lobbing Tomahawks at the enemy du jour is nowhere near as bad as getting involved in a Wilsonian crusade of nation building.
You’re never going to get a pacifist American President. What you can hope is that you get a Reagan or an Eisenhower rather than a Bush or a Johnson.
Oh, it’s not even Day 100. Trump will have plenty of time to find his nation to build. And it’s gonna be the best nation. The best. Real classy stuff. Just you wait. He knows the top nation builders and China is going to pay for all of it. All. Of. It.
>He knows the top nation builders and China is going to pay for all of it. All. Of. It.
They’re gonna buy T-Bills again?
My reading of the man. I just don’t see him thinking in the way that, anything bad=America has to send troops and money. I really bought into his America first bullshit.
*Primal scream of complete frustration*
How do we rid ourselves of these one World war mongering fools before they kill us all?
Replace them all with libertarians. Seriously, there is no other solution. The political establishment in this country will never be opposed to war. There’s too much profit in it.
“There’s too much
profitpower in it”Here’s a brain tickler, for you: maybe this was a direct result of getting Bannon out of the room.
Makes sense.
probably.
as i said in a comment a couple of threads ago – the whole, “We have nothing against Assad, he can stay” posture they were making
last weekjust a few days ago? Smells a hell of lot like a calculated head-fake as of right now.. I figured that, if anybody would tell the war mongers to fuck off if it wasn’t America’s problem, it would be Trump.
I believe I saw, in the NYT this morning, an accusation that Trump was the most hard core practitioner of *realpolitik* the White House has ever seen, based on his monstrous indifference to the plight of those poor pitiable Syrian childrinz.
Well, I was just saying this morning that Trump is eventually going to do something that libertarians hate. And there you have it.
Here’s what really, I mean just one of the things, that pisses me off. Why the hell is it worse if you kill people with chemicals than if you bury and burn them alive with bombs?
But what should be obvious to everyone with a working brain should know that no good can come of this. Unless we believe that replacing Assad with ISIS is a really brilliant idea.
Damn, this shit pisses me the fuck off. But I’m sure that Hillary, McCain, and Graham are having an orgy right now. Thanks, Trump, you dumbfuck.
Why the hell is it worse if you kill people with chemicals than if you bury and burn them alive with bombs?
Because, like, World War One man. *Waves arms dramatically*
It isn’t. Death is death.
A primal scream of rage is pretty much all that I can muster now.
The American people were tired of, among other things, constant war. They voted for the most anti establishment candidate they could find. And the dumb orange idiot still falls for the pressure and starts yet ANOTHER mid east war.
Is there any candidate we could elect who wouldn’t cave in to the siren call of war?
How long has America been at war now? A good solid 15+ years?
A whole generation has grown up thinking that America being at war is normal.
Yemen was already a continuous conflict, it’s not like the Trump Administration was avoiding conflict currently. Really it was just the beginning shots of a much more stupid conflict.
We’d need a Ron Paul-style figure to even admit that this shit was nonsense.
Well, just think of the big consolation prize we’re going to get with the return of the anti-war left. Who would obviously be cheering this on if Hillary had been elected. *sneaks off to DU to revel in the derp*
And they fail to dissapoint! First post!
“Trumps motivation for Syrian missile strikes are dubious
Throws shade on gorsuch vote
Takes Bannon out of the spotlight
Makes trump look like he is not afraid of Putin
He looks stronger on Syria than Obama
It gives the appearance of power over Chinese president in meetings
Will raise his approval numbers
Trump doesn’t give a fuck about Syria and people being killed.
This is a setup and he got the go ahead from Putin.”
Wow, Putin backs Assad, tells Trump to bomb Assad! Fucking Amazing! You people are not even fucking sentient!
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/850134512616996864
Should be in full reverse by morning.
There are some total morons on there. Not surprising in the least. It’s Twatter.
No you fucking idiot, we don’t have parallel presidencies in the USA. You’re living in a fucking parallel universe, dummy.
Technically, I believe that is called “sedition”. But, since it’s a fucking Statist Communist, is called “speaking truth to power”
These asshats are going to be shocked to find themselves against the Wall or in the gulag. Fuck. Sorry. Bad night for me. Fuck these warmongering Statist slavers. No, don’t fuck them: send them straight to hell where they belong.
What a retard.
Its not worse. It just provides legal + political cover to anyone who wants to escalate a pre-existing conflict.
Blame the UN
Yeah, I think the honeymoon period with Trump is truly at an end. (If the fake replacement of Obamacare wasn’t the end before this). What American interests are being served by this action?
Trump was always going to fuck over his base. The question was just when and where.
Yep. The right’s version of Obama, without the tact.
Different kind of lack of tact.
Obama was a master of the passive aggressive, neutered Leftist male bullshit.
Trump is an old school American asshole.
Fair enough. Obama dresssed his cuntiness up in a vapid call for ‘moderation’ and what not, but he was still a dishonest asshole pimping a narrative. With Trump I think it’s less ‘pimping a narrative’ and more ‘those people said I’m not anti-Russian enough so I’m going to attack a Russian ally as soon as I get the justification’.
The thing is, a lot of Trumps base are probably not only not offended by this, but actually like it. Most conservatives I know, almost all of whom voted for Trump, are very much Murika Fuck Yeah!
The quick take I’m gathering from social media is that there is a definite generational split on this. The “HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE!” goofy Tricorne-hat wearing Tea-Party Baby Boomers love this shit, but the Millennial/Gen Z Kekistanis are seething with feelings of betrayal.
As they should be. Whether they like it or not Trump was seen as the moderately sane anti-war candidate in comparison to Clinton for ‘my generation’.
It’s a disappointing, because the winning case for peace in American politics has been and always will be a robust declaration that we have problems enough at home, and that we don’t have to eat the peanut just because the monkey threw it out of the cage.
I agree. This is a 180.
And this is exactly what Trump campaigned on. In case anyone else missed it, he sounded very dovish compared to Hillary.
True.
Sadly, this is probably most accurate. Tomorrow and next week all the big name conservative commentators will be talking about how great it is to once again have a president who will take the lead on foreign policy and national security. No more leading from behind on the War on Terror!
Is there any candidate we could elect who wouldn’t cave in to the siren call of war?
Listen, it’s common knowledge among the establishmentarian chinscratchers that a President’s legitimacy depends on not letting some sharp-dressed fakir thumb his nose at the United States of America.
Fucking A. I really, really thought this was one thing Trump was going to be good on.
At least the anti-war left seems to have reappeared, right on schedule.
So, we’ll start hearing from Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink again?
To be absolutely fair: Cindy Sheehan kept on protesting war right through Obama’s Presidency. The media stopped paying attention to her for some reason.
I felt bad for her. They took a suffering woman, used her for purely partisan purposes, then kicked her to the curb when she was no longer useful.
I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I assume some form of idiocy was directly on the horizon.
Intervening into Syria? Not so much. I was expecting some dumb attempt at pacifying Afghanistan again.
I still hold out faith that Trump will be far better than Hillary would have been on this topic. That crazy bitch might have actually got us into a war with Russia. I think Trump is more savvy on that and not so unhinged. I’m pissed, make no mistake about that, but I’m feeling hopeless yet.
I expect a more hands-off (i.e. bombing and what-not) position, but that’s not necessarily better. If Trump is suddenly willing to overthrow (or attempt to) Assad this is an unbelievably stupid foreign policy move. One that drove people to specifically avoided Clinton for a reason.
I think that Trump is getting pulled in a lot of directions. Look at all the different voices that are around him. Apparently there’s already some fallout with Bannon. He needs to listen to some of the more sane voices around, like Rand Paul. Also, who the fuck is Jared Kushner? I mean, I know who he is, but you get what I’m saying.
Clinton was a total hawk. But she was also an unbelievably stupid hawk. Look at Libya. There as a dictatorial regime who complied with restrictions with WMD’s, and she replaced with a terrorist playground.
One cannot deny Clinton’s idiocy when it came to her moronic idea of regime change and how the military functioned, but now we have to deal with Trump’s idiocies in regards to the same subject. Clinton’s positions matter significantly less.
Even my wife, who is a big time Trump supporter is really upset about this.
As she should, this was not the United States’ fight, and pulling them in due to some idiotic chemical weapons casus belli was either an idiotic or frankly amateur move. And unfortunately I don’t expect the Trump administration from backing off from this fuck up and not doubling down.
Eh, if the policy is being made that “use chemical weapons and we make your airbase go away” that’s not necessarily the end of the world.
I’m really fucking worried he killed Russians.
Eh, if the policy is being made that “use chemical weapons and we make your airbase go away” that’s not necessarily the end of the world.
I expect that, at worse, to be Mattis’ position. What I’m worried about is an insensible Trump interested in pursuing a foreign policy that delegitimizes the Democrats’ claims of a Russian alliance (which you are clearly, indirectly, concerned about).
Well, at least what I am reading now is saying that the Russians were notified in advance and that there’s not any chance any Russians equipment was hit, let alone Russians killed. I guess we’ll know soon enough.
CNN is reporting remarks by the Secretary of State that sounds like full-on regime change.
Nikki Haley already said earlier today/yesterday that their previous-statements re: “outsting Assad – not a priority” had changed.
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, earlier today: “The process by which Assad would leave is something that will require an international community effort,” Tillerson said, adding that there needs to be a balance between defeating the Islamic State group and stabilizing Syria to prevent the civil war from escalating further.
I never listen to anything that CNN reports on until I hear it backed up somewhere else. They have a complete agenda to distort anything about Trump if it makes him look bad. I don’t trust them. They are almost as bad as Politico now. It’s just that while Politico is wrong 100% of the time on first reports, CNN is still only 90% wrong the first time.
Local news was just reporting that the Russians were informed in advance so they could withdraw. So i would presume that the Syrians had some warning, too.
That may be the only good news about this, hopefully this was just some stupid posturing, and that will be the end of that.
““hopefully you’re at least tingling with drugs or alcohol”
This Syria shit is harshing my buzz. Please tell me, dear fellow libertarians, more tinglers or what? I get headaches, which is worse when it rains. Today there were thunderstorms. So my head already hurt. And now this bellicose noise is ruining the psychological side-effects of my totes legally-prescribed weapons-grade headache medication.
Get ready.
There was a crazy storm here today also, and we never get storms. I mean except hurricanes. First there was a monsoon downpour and the creek was over the bridge at least once, and then there was this freak windstorm that blew over a couple of my potted plants on the deck and there was tree branches and other debris flying everywhere.
Stay calm, bro. Have a beer or two. Tomorrow is another day.
Thanks, I appreciate it. You’re right. It’s not like I can do anything about it, anyway.
Same. I need to sleep on this. Just feeling angry and frustrated right now.
I saw this first run! On the TV. I was 10. It sucked
I assumed at first you were talking about Regan’s intervention in Lebanon
I was gettin’ high and bangin’ bitches at State U when that went down. Had I enlisted in the Marine Corps straight outta highschool I could’ve died in that.
Extra, extra read all about it! Neoliberal government/media Deep State war machine achieves victory over Trump administration! Dogs of war unleashed! America betrayed with another “curveball”!!
It’s been amusing to see the Democrats suddenly understand Constitutional checks and balances since the election of Trump.
Well it has been, but of course it’s 100% fake.
This is just unreal.
From the NYT:
You fucking shameless lying pieces of shit. How does the media have any respect at all anymore? They certainly do not from me.
OFFS!!!!!
He’s a cowboy! Just like the warmonger president, W!
It’d be hilarious if it weren’t for the fact that some people will actually believe that. “I read it in the NYT, it must be true.”
Lizards and gentlemen, the award for the best impression of the Ministry of Truth goes to … the New York Times.
The only thing worse than a NYT commenter, is that these people actually believe that they’re some sort of intellectuals.
from Sept 2016, right-wing mouthpiece NPR
If we actually go to war, boots on the ground shit….
Fuck, i don’t even care anymore.
#notmygovernment
It would be some particularly out-of-nowhere bullshit. It would help to the Democrats hilariously, if they run some Jim Webb moderate they might even have a chance in 2020.
Trump fucked up big here, and if he keeps pushing it he’s only fucked up more.
Right? Of all of the thiDem candidates last year, he was the best. But, he wasn’t bat shit Insane enough to capture the Dem nomination. Other than Rand, he was probably the second best candidate from both parties.
I wonder why he ran as Democrat. Senility? Hope of restoring the Dems to sanity and destroying the Stalinist base?
Realizing that the elephants were introducing an even dozen guys saying the same thing?
Can we please get an isolationist, just once?
Doesn’t exist anymore, my friend. You’re a late-state empire, complete with all the stupid interventions for no real foreign policy reason.
Yeah, I think we’re somewhere in the transition phase from Republic to Empire. Constant war is now the norm and both of the main parties are good with that.
Will the toupee become the new laurel wreath?
I thought that transition phase came in the late 1940’s.
The 40’s set the stage. But the Americans alive at that time, many of whom had fight both world wars, were wary of America becoming a super power.
I have a whole thesis. If I wasn’t a lazy drunk, I’d write it up and submit it to be posted.
My super-duper, totes compassionate lefty laydee friends and relatives are flooding FB with, “Da Seerian Children!”. Female compassion+collectivism+white knighting is no way to run foreign policy.
Honestly, seeing Trump and the proggies sort of agree on something is really surreal for me right now, even though I know he’s practically a leftist.
I read an interesting article today about the cost-benefit analysis of foreign intervention. The gist was you could save more lives with less money through things like vaccination programs and taking in refugees.
A cruise missile costs about $1.5 million and the ship it is launched from costs about $40 million per week to operate.
In other words, it will be a lot cheaper just to airlift all the people in danger somewhere else if the goal is to save lives. Hell, it might even be cheaper just to pay Assad and his goons to retire in Sudan.
Another big problem is that in trying to save the underdog, we often end up helping, directly or indirectly, groups that are not much better than the oppressor/aggressor.
But vaccination doesn’t send a message!
You know which presidential candidate would NOT be bombing Syria tonight?
Is that a trick question?
One of the ones who had no chance of winning?
Gary Johnson?
Trump? Cruise missiles aren’t bombs. (Pedantic, I know.)
You know, I’m really proud of my fellow libertarians. I’ve always said, as all of us have, that we’d be the first to criticize any politician we’ve agreed with to any extent, the minute that person does something wrong. And here’s just more proof of it. I have, like a lot of you been defending this guy for months, because he actually deserved it against the ridiculous hyperbole that’s been passed off as facts. But now that he actually deserves harsh criticism, who shows up to deliver it? Libertarians, of course. Just more proof that the big tent jerkoffs are totally partisan asshats who know nothing about being objective or honest, but only how to play team politics. The left would absolutely defend what Trump is doing right now if it was Hillary doing it.
The left would absolutely defend what Trump is doing right now if it was Hillary doing it.
Ahem
not just “defending”…. how about bragging, “look! – she has a plan! This guy has no plan!!”… just hours before he actually does the very thing they’re saying.
Trust me, they do not have the sense of self awareness to understand what you just pointed out.
Meanwhile at CNN
“A pair of defense hawks — Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham — who have frequently been critical of Trump, roundly praised his decision Thursday night.”
My gawd, that is shocking. I think Trump’s next move should be to tie both of those worthless shitheads to one of the next round of cruz missiles.
I thought the missiles were used in retaliation for chemical weapons, using those old farts on it would be hypocritical.
Sometimes, in my most cynical moments I wonder if a law requiring congresspeople who vote for military action to actually go fight on the front lines would do anything to curb our marching all around the world.
Nah, probably not.
How about in addition to that, a requirement that all their assets be put in war bonds to fund that conflict, which will only be paid if we win.
By win I mean when the conflict is over, not the president Bush variety.
YES! I have been advocating for that for nearly a decade! You know at one time, if a leader wanted war, they would do exactly that!
Hell yes, bring that back!
Why couldn’t Rand Paul have won?
Because the majority of Americans are idiots.
Vast majority.
(Don’t sell us short)
I’m trying to remain hopeful about the future. You’re harshing my buzz, dude.
If nothing else, I’d like to believe that a lot of young upcoming conservatives are moving away from interventionism to a more peaceful stance. My natural cynicism says no but I want to believe.
Too sensible. Needed to do more fear mongering.
“But Sen. Rand Paul called on Trump to consult on Congress.
“While we all condemn the atrocities in Syria, the US was not attacked,” Paul said.”
Well, how about that. A libertarian gets it right again.
But the CHILDREN! DID YOU NOT SEE THE PICTURES OF THE CHILDREN! You heartless bastard. THE CHILDREN!
Did you see this? http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/04/05/bana-alabed-syria-chemical-attack-newday-camerota.cnn
Ooh, ‘member when Trump was against bombing Assad? I ‘member.
Crikey, it’s CNN. I am SO not watching that.
Fox was showing Trump’s old tweets (from around 2013) as well. But I turned off the TV. Because I don’t need any more of this.
It’s been reported that this was a personal decision that Trump came to after being shown the photos of gassed Syrians. If true, the US is probably going to be doing stuff like this a lot in the future. Worse, people around Trump now know how to sway him.
I’m afraid that whoever pushed for this in the Trump administration will try to walk Trump into regime change.
Surely you’re not suggesting that Melania and Ivanka are the biggest influence on Trump? It can’t be true, because if it is, we’re doomed.
Can someone please remind him that all sides in the Syrian Civil War suck, and that interfering in the first place was what got us into this mess.
If I was prez, I would totally take Lindsey Graham and John McCain and crack their heads together like Mo. Then I’d give them a choice of being air dropped into the worst war torn zone in Syria, or resigning from politics forever.
nah, just McCain, then Graham would do it too
start scrolling down and tell me when you started to laugh
for me it was around the
” – Secret Tasks Brigade[155]
– Deterring the Oppressors Brigades[156][157][158]”
mark
I started laughing when I saw we were the ones helping communists, and Russia was the one who was opposing them.
Clear as mud eh?
Saving that.
I didn’t see the People’s Front of Judea or the Judean People’s Front on the list. Although I did have to laugh at the Dam Martyrs brigade, because I have sense of humor of a 12 year old.
If the goal is to defeat ISIS, overwhelming force should be deployed as quickly as possible to end the war. That means either blasting Raqqa and Mosul with artillery until there is nothing left, or sending in armor and infantry to fight it out Stalingrad style. Both these options suck.
If the goal is force Assad to leave, it would be worthwhile to try to bribe him to leave first. Working out a deal so the Russians don’t lose their base in Latakia would sweeten the deal. Failing that, see the above.
As for Russia, once the US decides to intervene decisively, the Russians ought to be told to withdraw to avoid being caught in the cross-fire.
If the Russians refuse to budge, the US needs to weigh whether it is worth it to go to war with Russia over Syria. If we can’t get Russia out of the way, crush ISIS in Iraq and leave.
Or alternatively leave, and let Russia deal with the problem.
I was happy letting the Russians and the Kurds do the dirty work.
I vote for dumping crates of US dollars and weapons across Syria and hoping for the best.
Fuck you cut spending!
😉
That is a succinct summary of Obama’s 2012 policy
It even helped the Syrians form a JV team.
Can I have one crate of each, please?
Depends. Promise not to use them for settling millennia long feuds? Yes. Good enough, here ya go.
Uh, something happened to them. Can I have two more please?
*rubs hands gleefully at the thought of Christmas come early*
For those of you with FB, something you can post on your pages. And trigger the masses.
Dammit, I fucked the link up. Should work
I’ve basically put that on my FB. Response? “Have you tried googling how many times Assad has gassed his own people?”. Do I really want to continue to debate idiots on FB?
Did we go to war those other times? No? Didn’t the person who didn’t go to war get re-elected immediately thereafter?
She’s basically saying, “Well you’re just ignorant.” I FUCKING HATE THAT. Disagree or challenge my points, but when people throw that “ignorant” card out I want to punch them. Repeatedly.
Challenging your points might require her to think too hard about her positions.
If you do, you’ve got more stamina then me.
I dislike the highlighting of a false-flag claim. Its stupid. and its sort of characteristic of Ron Paul and partly why i’ve never been crazy about him.
There’s no need to go insisting that there’s something suspicious. Even if there were no conspiracy at all, it is objectionable policy for the US to get more deeply-involved in syria, or even to be involved at all in the first place.
Even given the (assumed legitimate) chemical attack, Trump’s reaction is… unsettling for the fact that literally days ago the official US policy was to *downgrade* from the Obama-admin position, and say, “we don’t care if Assad stays”
any administration that can go from, ‘we’re downgrading our aggressive posture’ to ‘we’re going to fire missiles at you’ in the blink of an eye is one that is going to have lots of allies + adversaries constantly assuming the worst.
All that said…. i do actually think there is reason to believe that the gas-attack might have been initiated by one of the (see link above) dozens of batshit opposition-groups, rather than the Assad regime. But frankly… even suggesting that simply distracts from the legitimate criticisms, because there’s zero evidence at all, and you have to assume that people in the admin should have had detailed intel on the thing by now.
I don’t think there’s a conspiracy (mostly because I don’t believe that the intelligence agencies and other govt departments are that smart.) I do think the quote works in the sense of trying to bring up the point that Assad probably wasn’t responsible, since that’s the narrative the media is pushing and everyone’s buying into. I usually go with the “engage the opponent on their own turf ” in arguments, could be the wrong strategy though.
I do agree with you on the position change though. I’m not surprised however.
I suppose the more effective way of attacking the narrative is simply to say, “The story they are putting out is full of holes. This, this and this isn’t true. This is possibly true. That is true.” Just undermine the narrative and let them or time fill in the holes.
Why attack the narrative when the facts are already on your side?
What if the narrative IS true? what if in fact Assad DID purposely gas some people? Is escalating the conflict somehow smarter then?
So we wreck one of their airfields; as General Mattis normally asks… “And what then?”
Were Iraq + Libya not good-enough-examples that ‘removing bad guys’ doesn’t really necessarily produce better-outcomes?
Sales. Do you get the sale just by pointing out how bad the other products are? I’m an awful salesman like most people who don’t align with either party. I’m not pushing the “false flag” so much, but how do you make the case of “who benefits?” without at least hinting at it?
We do, by not replicating the same fuckup a 3rd time in a row in the Middle East.
I’m actually a fairly decent salesman. It’s a bit like being a good magician, a good magician will tell you what he’s going to do, then dare you to spot him doing it. A good salesman will tell you he’s trying to sell you something, then sell it to you. I sell product X, my competitors, sell products Y, and Z.
OOPS drunken comment I meant to delete and accidentally hit post.
Anyways Gilmore, if you count Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya, Syria would be our fourth intervention without any real Win Scenario. So we take out Assad, that’s bad because then ISIS would take over. If we take out ISIS, then Assad takes over and that’s bad, because Russians.
Fuck, It’s not like this some new scenario, unheralded in the history of mankind. The Russians regularly pulled this crap back when I was growing up. It’s just Cold War II. The Russians hate ISIS as much, or more than we do. OK so we let Assad stay in power, that’s bad from a human rights perspective. That’s not a good thing, but it’s better than the alternative of letting ISIS run wild. It’s not like we didn’t have a cold war policy of supporting bastards, but they’re our bastards.
Realpolitik sucks, but what can you do?
I am a procrastinator: haven’t filed my taxes yet.
I will not pay for another mid east war. I will not do it. Put me in jail, kill me, arrest me. If you can. I will not pay for this. My boy is enlisted. I tried to warn him taking the king’s gold, and also about the concept of “cannon fodder”.
But kids are stupid.
It’s honorable when used correctly.
Fuck Trump and every sonofabitch that voted for him.
I had a witty comment to post. I hit wrong thing and all hell breaks loose.
Mankind lost the wittiest shit ever.
Oh well. Listen to this.
Actually, i just clicked to test the link. The link works fine. The song sucks ass and I apologize for posting it.
Here is my apology.
So I guess the constant airstrikes and troops in Syria was just fine for the past two years? But launch 20 or so Tomahawks?
STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES
Disgusting.
My people did not elect a warmonger!
The mainstreaming of Kek was definitely one of the funniest things of the election.