America, in general, is a great place for libertarians. It is not perfect, of course, but to my knowledge, it is the only place on earth you can legally buy an ounce of weed and an AR 15 in the same day (although you may not want to publicly declare it since the weed is still federally regulated). In particular, our gun laws are some of the most permissive in the world, for better or worse, and we can own damn near anything we like. Our silencer laws, however, bite ass. For those that just woke up out of an extended coma or are learning English as a second language, silencers are long tubes you screw or clamp onto the muzzle of a gun which reduce the deafening boom accompanying a shot down to a more manageable level. They are also called suppressors or mufflers, the latter being probably the most accurate description since they function very much like the muffler of a car. They are primarily used for safety and comfort, since it is much nicer to not go deaf from your hobbies, and ear muffs can be uncomfortable and ineffective, along with other downsides. “Those sound like great inventions” you’re probably thinking. They are. Too bad they are damn near illegal here.
You see, about 80 years ago, a bunch of politicians decided to take their first really big shit on the second amendment, and boy did they deliver. It’s called the National Firearms Act. You may have heard me talk about it once or twice, and I promise I will mention it again in the future because you will never love a woman (or man, if that’s your bag) as much as I hate that piece of legislation. The NFA put a de facto ban on a whole bunch of fun, useful, and constitutionally protected items, including silencers. The silencer regulation was particularly painful because it affects all silencers, for all guns, for all reasons. There is absolutely no way you can own or possess one without going through the NFA. There’s no decibel threshold for what constitutes a silencer, either. If it reduces the sound signature of a firearm in any noticeable way, it is considered a silencer. You literally cannot legally make your gun quieter. I don’t think it’s difficult to grasp how infuriatingly asinine it is to prohibit an item that is dangerously loud from being made safer to use. What really puts the corn kernels in this shit sandwich is that, by itself, a silencer is completely harmless. They’re regulating ownership of an overpriced piece of sewer pipe. In terms of lethality, it’s somewhere above a metal spatula and below a large flashlight.
The thinking (and I use that word as loosely as possible) behind it is that criminals use silencers to muffle their murderous gunshots during crimes, thereby delaying or avoiding police intervention. Sounds reasonable, right? Except that it’s 100% horseshit. A silencer doesn’t actually silence anything, it simply reduces the sound of the gunshot down to hearing safe levels, and even with a silencer many guns still do require hearing protection. A silenced gun is still about as loud as a chainsaw or an ambulance siren. I don’t hear any morons in congress talking about making those louder for safety. Imagine if a law was introduced severely restricting mufflers on passenger vehicles in order to reduce collisions. It would be laughed right out of Congress, but change ‘cars’ to ‘guns’ and suddenly it’s common sense regulation!
To put this in perspective, a number of countries with significantly more restrictive firearm laws not only allow but encourage ownership and usage of silencers on firearms. Places like Norway, New Zealand, and Poland have essentially no restrictions at all on silencers, and even the gun hating utopia of the UK is relatively lax in their silencer ownership laws. When you’re doing worse than the UK at something gun related, you know you’ve got problems.
There is, however, some hope on the horizon. a few years ago some politicians got together and introduced the Hearing Protection Act, a name which puts a big trollish grin on my face every time I read it. The HPA would take silencers out of the purview of the NFA and treat them like a gun, requiring only a 4473 and a background check to purchase. It had fairly broad support in Congress, but never went anywhere because chocolate Jesus would have vetoed it on the spot. That all changed when Big Donny Sixgun came to town, though. With orange being the new black, the HPA has a real shot at getting passed. That shot got a little bit louder (or is it quieter?) recently when some clever fellow in Congress (oxymoron, I know) decided to roll all of the major provisions of the HPA into an otherwise boring little piece of paper called the ‘Sportsmen Heritage and Recreational Enhancement Act’ or SHARE Act. I wonder how much they pay people to come up with names for these bills. Is that where greeting card writers go after they’re promoted? Anywho, the bill was scheduled for a hearing on Wednesday, but some fucking dicknose bernie bro douche canoe had to go and put bullet holes in a couple of politicians that morning, and the hearing has been canceled until further notice. So, if that was your ultimate goal, you fuckstick, then mission accomplished. I am going to break my foot off in your ass when I see you in hell.
That all changed when Big Donny Sixgun came to town,
V, its “Donny Two-Scoops”. Tow the lion, brah.
In some cases, a silencer can actually make things louder
Hey, say what you will about the tenet of national socialism Bernie, at least it’s an ethos.
I want to see pistols like this become common:
https://silencerco.com/maxim/
I do as well. I believe that the de regulation of silencers will be on par with the creation of the internet. We will see a giant leap forward in firearms innovation.
I was gonna say that 140 dB doesn’t seem like much suppression, but apparently an unsuppressed 9mm is 160.
It’s also an early model. Imagine what we would have in 20 years.
Logarithmic math has exponential possibilities…
When the reptiles can make coherent math jokes you know you’re in trouble.
Something about it just doesn’t add up.
Sorry, I just don’t get the base of the joke.
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand base-2, those who don’t, and those who understand base-3.
Base 2 is feeling her tits right?
Small nit to pick- the argument that we should be allowed to have silencers because they don’t actually silence guns pretty much cedes the point that we shouldn’t be able to have silent guns.
At no point did I say we should not have silent guns. The idea that a gun making a noise is somehow a safety feature is a crock of shit.
You use A silencer doesn’t actually silence anything, as proof that the anti-silencers argument is bullshit, where I would argue that even if silencers did silence guns the argument is still bullshit, again a small nit not an overall condemnation of your fine article.
That is a fair point, but the primary argument against silencers and the reason they were outlawed is the faulty premise that they make guns into silent death machines capable of felling women and children from any range with a faint puff of smoke and the rustle of leaves. Since this is the main argument against it and it is as wrong as tits on a bull I decided to make it my thrust. There is no logical argument in favor of the extreme level of regulation of silencers we have in this country and many others. Absolutely none. They should be required on all guns much like mufflers are required on vehicles using public roads.
Last line should read “If anything, they should be required on all guns much like mufflers are required on vehicles using public roads.”
Oh, so you support government mandates and public roads now, huh? Is that it?
I know this may be stupid… but!
” You literally cannot legally make your gun quieter. I don’t think it’s difficult to grasp how infuriatingly asinine it is to prohibit an item that is dangerously loud from being made safer to use. ”
Have any gun makers tried making a gun with a built in silencer? I mean… extended barrel that happens to dampen the noise by accident?
Nevermind, Read further down.
I love judges. I’ll never forget that ACA ruling. Who knew 70-year-olds were so flexible?
Last reply to myself… I promise.
have people tried 3-D printed silencers yet?
Yep. https://3dprint.com/52245/3d-printed-plastic-silencer/
Here’s one if you prefer sintered to poly. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/foghorn/hands-on-worlds-first-3d-printed-metal-silencer/
One of the neat things about making them OTC is the possibility of making them disposable. I mean, SFC Gofaster may need a Ti-RANT or the ilk when he’s kicking in doors in Asscrackistan, but I just want it to be quiet when I have to shoot indoors, or the every other year I go deer hunting. I don’t need, nor want to pay for, something that’ll survive a 10,000 round count.
Excellent point. I like that attitude.
I’d just like to be able to shoot at a range without wearing earmuffs and still be able to hear people say things to me. Oh, and, god forbid, be able to shoot a gun in my small-ass house if need be without going deaf.
Is the Bernie bro shooters name widely known? I mean I remember Dylan Roof being drilled into our collective memory.
I guess James T. Hodgkinson doesn’t really roll off the tongue. Maybe I’m paranoid.
With the amount of meth you consume, it’s probably just paranoia. They’re also going to do their damnedest to memory hole this guy, but it’s too early for that yet.
All the good assassins have cool names.
Also, fuck everyone. 2 days after the shooting and my wife hadn’t even heard about it (I was running an experiment). She uses facederp and shit too.
I prefer whacked out Bernie Bro who wanted more free shit. Who gives a fuck what his name was.
Well, we can coin “Hodgkinson’s Disease”. It’s lead poisoning caused by a proto-Communist shit-heel.
/trying to defame that stupid fuck, not make light of his violence.
Also RIP Sig MP-X NFA compliant model.
?
A year or two ago Sig came out with a gun that had a very long muzzle brake shaped just like the baffle stack of a silencer (first pic in article). The idea was that people could buy the gun without a stamp, apply for a tax stamp for their can , and use the gun as is til their form was approved. Then they simply slide their empty can over the baffle stack and make a silencer. The ATF blocked the sale of the gun on the grounds that the muzzle brake itself was a silencer even though it didn’t actually change the sound signature of the gun. The judge ruled in favor of the ATF (big fucking surprise) and the idea was buried.
http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/sig-is-suing-the-atf-after-the-agency-declared-their-new-muzzle-brake-is-a-silencer/
Well shit. Thanks for educating me.
” I am going to break my foot off in your ass when I see you in hell”
I am starting a bucket list of graves I am going to shit on. For a nominal fee I will be happy to add this asshole.
I can legally own one in PA, but I don’t have the patience to wait 10 months. I really hope they manage to get this through.
If I had to wait 10 months for a license, then could by all the silencers I want for the rest of my life, I’d jump through that hoop, but every time I want to buy one, nope.
It’s more the $200 tax stamp for every one of them that gets me.
In NJ I can’t even own a pistol with a threaded barrel. Just found out about that one. So all those cool “tactical” pistols are a no-go in the fucking Garden State.
As George Carlin once said, “if you don’t like the weather, move!”
That was really well written.
Fun read.
“With orange being the new black, the HPA has a real shot at getting passed.”
That’s beautiful.
Yeah, consider that stolen.
Also, yeah, silenced guns aren’t a bigger threat. Silenced semiautomatic pistols aren’t a bigger threat. Silenced AR-15s aren’t a bigger threat–not for being silenced.
You know what almost does seem like a real threat to me?
A rifle like the Savage 10/110 FCP HS Precision. My understanding is that those things are accurate pretty much out of the box at 1000+ yards (a scope, a little training, and practice required). But at a 1,000+ yards, who cares if it’s silenced? Why does anybody need to hit anything at 1,000+ yards?
My brother’s friends hunt elk up in Utah, where the bulls are typically in the middle of the herd, and there aren’t any trees. They can see you coming from a long way away, and you’re not getting much closer than 500 yards. Maybe those guys need a really accurate long range rifle.
Apart from them?
If I’m a gun grabber, long range rifles are what I’d be going after–who cares if they’re silenced?
Not that a gun needs to be useful for anything other than the enjoyment and desires of the people who want to own them. But IF IF IF I were a gun grabber (which I’m not), it ain’t silenced handguns or AR-15s I’d be going after.
If I’m a gun grabber, long range rifles are what I’d be going after–who cares if they’re silenced?
Ahh, but you see Ken, the problem is that as a non-gun grabber you don’t understand what it is about guns that actually makes them scary. Is it the ballistic properties? The range? Lethality? Well, sure it is, but if you’re out on the street when shots ring out, you aren’t going to break out a physics book and compute those properties are you? No. You’re going to look around for the white guy with the tactical vest and the big black fully semi-automatic assault machine gun with armor piercing drum clips.
Rifle golf. Those guns are great for rifle golf.
Does everybody on the shooting range try to hit the guy driving the bullet collector?
Ha! As a teenager I had a job at the local range driving the ball pickup cart. Even though I knew I could be not at any second it was always made me jump when a ball smacked the metal mesh. Those fuckers would be aiming for me.
“not” should be “hit”
I just assumed you were drunk.
Me too. I have fallen out of golf carts when drunk.
I know I always aimed at the dude driving that thing. My unfixable slice, however, made it more of a “psyche!” moment for the kid.
They haven’t gotten there. There’s the hand-wringing over .50 BMG, but that’s just movie-plot BS. They haven’t figured out 6.5mm Creedmore. They don’t know what a .338 Laupa is. None of them really understand how .308 can be deadly in the hands of a somewhat experienced rifleman at 500 yards in any modern hunting rifle with a middling scope. Hell, they don’t even know what reading the wind is.
Wood stocks and bolt actions are old-timey and as American as apple pie. The ones who really want to take ’em all can’t just take “hunting rifles”. Not yet. People would wonder.
.338 Lapua still holds to record for longest ranged confirmed KIA if I’m not mistaken.
No kidding! It’s all about the ballistic co-efficient. Long range shooting is pretty cool, and requires a lot of skills like reading wind to be successful. And by reading the wind, that means some well-practiced skills.
.50BMG API at 100 yards will certainly penetrate most commercial up-armored vehicles, though. $375 for 150 rounds as I check right now.
Looks like .50 still has the record. Note. Hathcock was beaten by a couple Canucks in ’02, but the link is on the page right under his listing.
Thanks for the link. I’m already wincing in sympathy after reading the South African making a shot with a 14.5.
At a certain point, just mortar the guy already. Or call in friends to do it for you.
Many elk are shot at 400-500 yards, but many are taken at much shorter range. It depends how you hunt I guess. If you had a rifle good to 1000, that would make work much easier. Sit and glass across the valley as the animals move due to pressure put on by other hunters. Rather than walking across the damn valley and wait for them.
Another animal I can think one would want to shoot at 1000 yards might be an antelope. They like to hang out in places you can’t sneak up on them unless you are a marsoc marine or some shit. I have never hunted antelope, but often wondered what they taste like.
I’ve heard people say they’d rather eat elk than beef, they’d rather eat beef than deer, and they’d rather eat their own shoes rather than antelope.
They say antelope taste like shit.
I can attest to the first two, not sure about the third.
I’ve had antelope. It’s excellent – better than veison, on par with elk.
I like elk, but no, it does not taste as good as beef to me. Venison I don’t like so I don’t hunt deer anymore. Although, you can make good sausage out of anything. Even fresh roadkill I would imagine. It is all in the spices and whatever fat you add.
They are wrong, Ken. Though I suppose it depends on what the antelope is eating. And what kind of antelope. Pronghorn is delicious.
I’ve never had it myself.
I ate some rainbow and brook trout I caught up in Utah last summer. Those were damn tasty!
We used to run up into Wyoming every year back in the 90s, when the state was practically giving away doe antelope tags trying to thin out the population some in the Encampment valley and the sage country around Saratoga. For the record, I always thought antelope was pretty good eating.
One year we had a guy join our party from back east someplace. He had a big, heavy-barreled Model 70 Target in some wildcat, 6.5mm Eargesplitten Loudenboomer damn thing, because he insisted antelope couldn’t be shot from under 500 yards.
I wont $20 in bet from him by low-crawling through a field of crop-top wheat into the middle of a herd and killing a doe at about 20 yards with my .357,
That’s the difference between hunting and shooting.
*won $20 in a bet. Dammit.
There’s been a few new designs for AR uppers that include a silencer +housing in the overall length to keep it at slightly over 16″. With the length at 16+ inches, there’s no SBR tax stamp (and potential state restrictions). Only the silencer tax stamp is required. When making a dedicated, suppressed upper, there’s a lot of engineering that can be done to make it very much more efficient than a standard upper+silencer.
If the HPA happens, it is even better for these innovators. No tax stamps. Cash and carry.
I look forward to a fully-engineered .300 blackout upper. Honey Badger THIS!
If there was no cost/hassle difference, I would buy exclusively suppressed firearms. Fuck this tinnitus in my left ear.
Where are the gun nuts? Drunk already? what am I talking about, of course they are.
I was waiting to see if there was going to be a Belly Up to the Bar feature this evening. I’m gonna start here pretty soon regardless.
As soon as I clock out, brother.
There’s no late night links from STEVE SMITH/ZARDOZ either.
We should make our own Glibertarians, with blackjack and hookers.
No, they’re eating highly unrecommended pollo asado.
You never said “don’t get the asado”. I did try to get the lemon one, but my wife likes to pair foods from the same region.
Drunk and vaping on a river boat.
Vhyrus, I think you’re going the wrong direction with this. Clearly we need expose ourselves and everybody around us to pain every time we exercise a constitutional right. You want to burn a flag? Go ahead, but by law you have to hold it in your bare hands.
Tissue sample in order to vote? Sure, lets do it!
You’re just asking for consistent application of law. What are we? Barbarians?
Just because Warty wants to expose himself doesn’t mean the rest of us should have to do the same.
Silencers are pretty cheap in the rest of the world, even if they’re not too different than what you can get with a $200 stamp here in the US. But, we’re seeing the cusp of what American engineering and a high demand base can produce. If the HPA goes through, we’re going to see some SERIOUS SHIT. Silencers are already getting better, just because CAD programs, cheap processing for fluid simulation, and rapid prototyping have reduced the development cycle. With a tenfold increase in demand, there will be a freaking renaissance. Imagine how perfect the $500 silenced upper for your .300 blackout will be. Manufacturers will be elbowing each other to reduce the perceived impulse by fractions of a dB. Adequate silencers will be cheap because no one will care about the $25 can when there’s no $200 stamp (and registration) to go with it.
Also: OMG SOLVENT TRAPS FTW
Silencers are dangerous.
Rapper names have gotten noticeably more ridiculous lately.
Poor guy is having a bad week.
Bring back Flavor Flav.
Ya, ok get new names. The dude that did the hitting is a ninja though. That was some fast knockout. He needs to change his name to the Blur Of Knuckle $andwich.
BOKS BITCH!!
I’m not the only one who read “large flashlight” as “large fleshlight”, right?
Right?!?
I’m still not even sure what the purpose of a light is on a sex toy, but I’m sure you pervs know. PERVS!
Well. You know with one of these silencers, that right wing terrorist who shot some Congress critters, he could have killed millions with his bullet spraying death machine. But you fake Republicans don’t care until a gun kills until there’s nothing left to kill.
” right wing terrorist”
You fool, a gun like that does it of it’s own accord. Thats why we need commonsense gun control. Gotta control those guns man.
The depicted objects look mighty big, black and hard to be optimal as “Silencer Suppositories.”
Allow me to ask the stupid question, as I am not above that. So, are they selling guns in the US with threaded barrels? I have never came across one, but I am not the gun nut many of you are here. I assume they do, hence it being a stupid question. What guns?
Yes, they do although I think some states and/or various municipalities don’t allow them.
Thank you for pointing that out. I’m in AZ so take my buying advice may not apply to you.
Yes. In fact if you have an AR the flash suppressor is threaded on, and normally welded in place if the barrel length is under 16″ without the flash suppressor. If longer all you need is a crescent wrench and a good vise. I don’t think thats what you’rie asking for.
A good example for a pistol is the FN FNX-45 tactical, or if you’re into 1911s, the Sig Sauer Scorpion 1911 will have a threaded barrel out of the box. The 1911 aftermarket is huge, and a threaded barrel can be had either as a drop in or with some fitting. Others like the Walther PPQ or nearly anything from HK will sell you a pistol with a threaded barrel as an option.
Aah, drop ins, and aftermarket stuff. I had not thought of that. Thinking of guns as a bunch of parts is something one should think of having taken them apart over and over.
Thanks for the info.
You have to be careful with 1911s due to the tighter tolerances. Otherwise if you have a Glock or nearly any modern pistol, you can drop it in with little issue.
My Sig 716 DMR that was stolen back in August had a threaded barrel.
Sure the do – pretty much any pistol with “tactical” slapped on the end of the name will have a threaded barrel. They are usually a bit spendier. For example.
Would like to see the actual video, but no luck yet.
Anyway:
Blowback, it ain’t real
The sum knowledge of any of those dimwits regarding “silencers” has been culled from James Bond movies and episodes of “Hart to Hart”. They are talking shit, as usual and are inordinately proud of the bits that dribble from their collective chin.
Fine rant as usual. Only thing to point out is in some of those countries you mentioned, a suppressor it is often a requirement on public ranges and even considered rude to shoot without one if the range does not require it.
Almost as bad as picking up somebody else’s brass without asking.
Got a text from some coworkers while I was out this evening. WTF. Probably not t-boned, but still. Bridge crew musta been asleep.
There’s a reason you will virtually never see a collision at sea marked with one party 100% at fault – blame is always split – 0230 local or not – this should not have happened.
Looks like the hit was worse than I thought – looks like CO was hit in his stateroom.
7 sailors still unaccounted for, last I checked.
LT, semi OT, but since I think you were in the Navy, what’s your opinion on the PO3 on the Shiloh who went AWOL underway for nearly a week? (The command thought he went overboard, called out A/S to look for him, both US and Japan. Real mess.) Anyway, they found in the engineering spaces.
Most of what I’ve read is pillorying the Captain for not being sensitive to mental health issues, et al, and not the snowflake PO who’s cost both countries probably in the 7-8 digit dollar range.
Just curious what your thoughts, and other Navy guys like robby, were.
Haven’t read too many articles about it yet. First article I saw, I thought they were talking about the guy who everyone saw go over the side off the Atlantic coast a couple weeks ago.
I’ve heard about things like that on the carriers – where there are hundreds of spaces that may only get inspected once every couple of years (ie. finding dried up corpses of shipyard workers when they go back into the yards 10 years later).
Most smaller ships still have spots in engineering and other spaces where you might have the phantom shitter or where serial masturbators hang out in private, but it’d take some skill and planning to hang out for a week (and a few empty bottles). Not sure how he was planning to go ashore in secret when they pulled back in either. Either serious balls or lack of planning – probably #2.
Keelhauling’s no longer legal, but I’d say it’s court martial – definitely above a captain’s mast non-judicial punishment given the international effects, etc (I have not been to legal officer school). Whether the command has any responsibility is a different matter – impossible to say without seeing if he had a history of counseling statements or similar behavior, etc.
Nothing about the additional gas that gets pushed back into the system leading to all kinds of fouling especially in rifles? For shame.