It’s funny how everything illegal is universal. Drugs, gambling, prostitution. Making a law to fight it doesn’t snuff it out. It’s just a reality. It’ll be done somehow, someway.
I live in Daejeon, South Korea. I went north to Seoul to see my friends off for their going-away party. It’s about an hour away on the fast train.
At the bar we banter and celebrate our friends’ imminent departure. Shockingly fast, the games began.
My friend took out five dice and tossed them onto the pool table. We’re gonna play Threes. I didn’t know how to play but learned fast. Skin in the game incentivizes immediate understanding. You roll the dice up to five times. Low score is the winner. Every roll you have to keep at least one die. A three is worth zero and everything else is face value. A score of four is respectable and under is gravy.
We started out low stakes, a buck a player. The rounds came and went, winner taking seven or eight per. One game went particularly long—twenty bucks to me. I’m up $15.
We ratcheted up. Buy-in went from a buck to ten. It really is remarkable how the changing stakes heightens your focus.
We’re not high-rollers. We’re poor-ish English teachers. Every game now is worth close to $100. Green notes stacked on the felt, this is serious money for us. And I hate losing.
I lost a few rounds and was very near to bowing out. I throw ten bucks in anyway. I played conservatively and won the pot. Eighty bucks to me.
That was the end of my line, for the most part. I had to float my friend $20 for two bets and enough-is-enough after they raised the stakes to $20 a roll. I later learned that one of the players was a bit of a gambling addict. The Madness had set in as I wisely stepped out. I became an accepted spectator. The last few games netted the winner something like $180 each.
The bar turned a blind eye to all of this. They were excited for the business. The game was organic and started of its own accord. The people who wanted to play flocked to the table and those that didn’t did not. People who didn’t want to put money down still could watch and bought drinks to entertain themselves whilst vicariously living through our wallets. No one gave a shit. It was glorious.
It struck me during the game how we all instantly agreed to the rules. People came together to play a stupid game for a shot at making some money. And those that won and lost understood that the rules to play were arbitrary. But they were agreed to. If it’s arbitrary for one and all then it’s not so arbitrary after all. A beautiful system with no leaders, no kings—simply a mutual understanding between blokes, a glint in the eye for some weekend cash.
We self-regulated. There was no muscle involved, but we all understood that if someone tried some fuckery, there were plenty of eyes and arms to make sure the money didn’t flee unjustly. Having money on the felt makes one very mindful.
No police; no guards; no threats; no violence; no force. Just fun.
I ended up $26 even after I gave the twenty to my friend. Damn good in my book, paying for the entertainment and festivity for three hours and still ending up in the green. Another fun foray into the life of “sin” that people wrongfully cast shade upon.
At least half of the fun is the seediness of it all. Adrenaline and cash naturally make up the rest. That’s what the government can’t ever learn: That which is illegal is inherently desirable. Tell people that they can’t do something and a portion of the population is going to say “Fuck off” simply to thumb their nose.
I know I do.
It was a beautifully organic experience. Out of sight from the law, and everyone regulating each other voluntarily. Curious how that seems to work out.
And I’m still in the green.
You have a picture of hot women but the story is all about gambling. The dice game is interesting, but what about the women?
At least half of the fun is the seediness of it all. Adrenaline and cash naturally make up the rest. That’s what the government can’t ever learn: That which is illegal is inherently desirable. Tell people that they can’t do something and a portion of the population is going to say “Fuck off” simply to thumb their nose.
As people realize that there’s nothing inherently wrong with certain bits of illegal activity (smoking pot, prostitution, gambling, etc.), they also learn disrespect for the government. That’s not necessarily a bad thing and should not be seen as some sort of multi-dimensional chess argument for destroying government.
I felt like tour concluding thought didn’t really follow form anything either you or the OP said. A little confused what you meant?
“That’s not necessarily a bad thing and should not be seen as some sort of multi-dimensional chess argument for destroying government.”
As I was typing that up, I was also thinking about some one I used to know who seemed to think that every time I observed on a possible outcome to something, that my observation was an argument for that thing. It got tiresome.
It probably would have helped if I put more thought into what I was typing and not thinking about memories.
You have a picture of hot women but the story is all about gambling. The dice game is interesting, but what about the women?
Yes. *Throws false advertising flag*
Having a picture of Korean women in this article makes all of us winners?
Better to have Korean women instead of pictures of Korean women.
On the other hand, beggars can’t be choosers.
On the gripping hand… umm… err…. I’ll just quit now.
No doubt, but even the inclusion of a simple picture of Korean women creates an instant win for all of us.
* At this point i should disclose a certain fondness for Korean women..
Yes, but did you read the caption?
Retch-inducing.
2 billion views can’t be wrong…
I think I need a nurse.
Yeah, for once I don’t think I’d mind a visit from a cop…
That sounds fun. I suck at gambling, unfortunately, but I admire men who can break even with it. I also admire the ability of people to organize, sans outside influence. We are after all for better or worse a social species, and organization comes natural.
OT: Anyone do any scale army men type stuff?
When I was little an uncle of mine gifted his set. Lots of WW2 era 1:72 scale stuff (afrika corps, British 8th army, some russians, etc.), as well as cowboys and Indians (custer’s last stand) I’ve been getting into Napoleonic wars and just ordered 10-12 boxes of stuff, thinking of doing a scaled down version of the battle of waterloo.
When I was a wee lad I had a set of the battle of little round top. It was hella cool, but my uncoordinated child hands ruined the paint job, not that I cared. It’s a fun hbby
Heh. I started painting a set of hussars (or maybe cuirassiers) about 10 years ago… still not done yet!
I have a Diorama My son and I built, 2 years and 2000 dollars, totally fun,
The Bocage in Lozon, Normandy, France 1944
Lozon is my last name
I’m hoping to spend a bit less than that.
I work in 1/35 scale for WWII stuff and I just did a B-25 that’s going down in flames chased by a pair of Me-109g’s,
Aerial Diorama!
That sounds really cool. Pics?
tons, but I need to post em somewhere and I’m kinda dumb about that, hints?
I would love to show it off it’s pretty cool, 250+ troops, 17 vehicles, 3- 88mm Flak guns, command post, radio room ,med, outhouse
I see some folks use imgur. I’ve never used it, so I can’t comment on how it is.
I’ve been using flickr for sharing my travel pictures. It’s OK. You need a Yahoo account.
I miss Picasa. I liked Picasa and thought it was a very good picture sharing service. Google killed Picasa in favor of Photos which I think is far inferior to both Picasa and flickr.
Yeah don’t tease like that and not provide pics.
Alright! I’m going to work something up to show everyone, look for my post in a bit, with linky or something
Link below
I’ll third the request for pictures.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOaIVwNoUh-6Hi6W-7FJllCEHJe6Mea2m0v1Tca8RQxtYAEm2x059PEQ-QvNlb5MA?key=VjZDeDByZTdTYU5GU0x3c3YxajZrdmUtRGZZcFBR
Awesome, really cool.
Sweeeet! Thanks for posting.
That’s awesome, Yusef. Srsly. You and your son did a wonderful job.
You should photograph it properly with a tripod and a background (old bedsheet works) and put up a website with references and stuff.
I wish i had the patience for that kind of stuff. That is really awesome!
I have a cousin who used to own a tank (actual tank, not scale)
Me Jelly 🙂
Nice, what type?
Sure it’s all good for you, you’re up $26, what a about the poor bloke that lost half his pay check and then drank the rest in a bout of self pity, now he goes home and after getting an earful from the old ball and chain he gives her the old what for (and not in the good euphemistic way). Not so much harmless fun and games for them is it? Broken homes and broken souls, thank god they have no kids.
He gets locked in a room for fifteen years and then has to follow the clues to figure out why he was put in there.
+1 Tetsuo
And who pays for that? The taxpayers that’s who, and what if while locked in that room he decides he wants to become a pretty lady?, Now I’m on the hook for an expensive sex change to boot, I’m telling you there is just no upside to letting people do just whatever the hell they want.
Actually I’m pretty sure the creepy weirdo revenge lock up is privately managed. But they gotta work on their security, some dude with hammer kicked the shit out of their entire staff.
Oh my.
Any of those girls want a Canadian green card?
So OT question, are you really a time traveler from the future?
With how worldlines work it’s not really ‘your future’ anymore, but yes.
Ah, so the divergent timelines theory was correct. Excellent.
I only have one more question:
How do you spell Berenstein Bears?
Berenstain Bears in most universes, Berenstein in the ones where (((they))) really do control everything.
Noted. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got a DeLorean to work on…
We don’t let people from the 20th or early 21st century time travel. You people always go back and try to kill Hitler and it got really obnoxious. There’s like a line up of several thousand people stuck in a causality loop around 1928. No one wants to kill Baby Hitler for some reason. Or Napoleon.
Why do you think Hitler survived so many assassination attempts? Other time travelers had to keep stopping them.
Fuck killing Hitler, I’m going to go to the future and steal some technology, patent it early and then make bank
Wikihistory on killing Hitler.
That is one of my favorite little pieces of the internet right there
Because Baby Hitler is just adorable!
Yeah, we don’t tolerate the ‘Biff Tannen’ method either. The Time Lawyers will come after you and you’ll end up in a 68th century Box of Pain.
See, you 21st century primitives always think so small. It’s never “I’m going to go to another planet ten million years ago and masturbate into the primordial ooze and create life” it’s “Imma gonna get money”.
Those Future lawyers can suck my box of pain! also that other thing you said sounds like a grand idea. Thanks for suggesting it.
Meatbags,
Futurama did the time travel paradox in their own style. Here is the wiki entry on the episode:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Late_Philip_J._Fry
It is available on many streaming sites.
None where it’s Bernstein Bears?
There was that one universe where it was Bern, Stein, and Bears, LLC. That was one heck of a litigious Earth. And you people think three felonies a day is rough.
He’s a time traveler from ‘A’ future, but it’s no longer the same future we’re experiencing, a la Heisenberg’s uncertainty theory.
I still have my medal from the Third Temporal War, 2231-2239
Pink capitalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_capitalism
***
Pink capitalism (also called rainbow capitalism[1] or gay capitalism[2]) is a term used to describe, from a critical perspective, the incorporation of the LGBTIQ movement and sexual diversity to capitalism and the market economy; especially as this incorporation pertains to the gay, cisgender, western, white, and upper middle class communities and market.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
Specifically, the term refers to the targeted inclusion of the gay community, which has acquired sufficient purchasing power (referred to in this context as pink money) to generate a market focused specifically on them. Examples of such targeted inclusion are bars and nightclubs, LGBT tourism, or specialized culture consumption.[13][14]
The term is often used in discussions of the conflict between an increasing opportunity for homosocialization and the drive towards an assimilation of sexual diversity caused by companies’ definition of new consumption patterns. The new body aesthetics and fashion trends set by advertising canons employing pink capitalism, for example, are sometimes argued to push gender-diverse communities towards socially accepted sexual standards.
***
homosocialization? pink money? What is this gobbledygook?
I hear you can get some good pink money in Thailand for cheap.
Also, businesses want customers, should it be any surprise that they cater to various demographics?
Shorter article. Capitalism rocks.
Roughly translated, they’re trying to give a fancy definition to targeted marketing.
Whut?
All I’m getting out of that is “we need special favors in the market, baby!”
gayness should be taxed more
As far as I know we already have all of those things. Last trip to Key West the hotel I had reserved turned out to be a dump so I just wandered down Duval to the first one I could find and walked in. They had a room, so, cool.
“Can we have the room for a week? I will pay you now.”
*Owner looks over my shoulder at my wife*
“Sir, you do realize that we specialize in…how shall I say….are you sure you wont be uncomfortable?”
“Of course. You cater specifically to homosexuals. I dont care about that. You seem like a nice guy and it seems like a nice hotel. Your prices are decent. Yeah, we will be comfortable. I dont care what y’all do, thats none of my business. We didn’t come here to hang out i n a hotel, we came to scuba dive and see the town.”
*smiles, hands me the key, accepts check for full week’s stay*
This is more proggie agitating for the sake of creating strife and division. Fuck those idiots.
I sense a cultural appropriation charge…
Queer Antifa showed up just in time in Syria.
https://twitter.com/IRPGF/status/889445690656608256
Just a few more pictures and they’ll get to the fighting.
YPJ will make sure they’re in a quality position if they’re deployed I’m sure.
There’s nothing the Kurds love more than poorly trained homosexuals.
Yeah, After ISIS has been pretty much broken, at least in Iraq, how convenient. Also, those guys look like they are probably pershmurgah, but look for the US antifa to claim credit somehow.
YPG and YPJ are Kurdish militia units in Syria, not Peshmerga who are Iraqi. They accept foreign volunteers and are sufficiently more left-wing then their Iraqi equivalents, which is probably where antifa sees their appeal. Regardless the Kurds haven’t actually been that useful at killing ISIS, they’ve been just protecting their own territory zone. If Assad crushes the the opposition, Tahrir al-Sham and ISIS they’ll get rolled.
Fair point. I do wish I could keep up with all these factions. I agree, Assad will probably roll them and be king of the Trash Heap when it’s all over.
The factional shifts in Syria are just stupid. Tahrir al-Sham only came into existence like six months ago, before that they were the al-Nusra Front, and really they’re just al-Qaeda who keep changing their name or allying with new groups.
GRR Martin has got nothing on these folks.
Trolling. Whatcha wanna bet those guys holding the signs and flags have no idea what it says or means?
There is something inherently fun about doing something just because you’re told you can’t.
Bullshit, you can’t tell me I can’t not have fun when I do something you tell me I can’t do.
I fear society is trending away from rebelliousness.
Notionally, as a kid we completely disrespected authority. We were suspicious of it and we assumed it was there to prevent us from having fun. We laughed at people/teachers who told us to do things for our own good, and there was a complete us against them mentality. You wouldn’t dream of ratting out another kid to an authority figure, even if you hated him and he was in the wrong. I assume that’s why I’m a rebellious libertarian now.
Maybe where I grew up was a one-off, but I suspect younglings nowadays don’t think like that.
Young people still rebel against authority. However, the creation of victim hood classes was a brilliant move by the left. It allows them to tell young people that certain classes (capitalism, patriarchy, racial privilege, etc.) are always to be considered the “authority”, regardless of who is actually in charge.
No Frank, it’s not a one off. That sounds about right to me.
Sounds like the 70s to me, that’s exactly how it was then. I remember one time the principal of the high school told everyone to sit in the gymnasium and not go anywhere else during breaks for a week. I can’t even remember what we did now. But anyway, only about 5 students sat in the gymnasium, the ‘goody two shoes’ as we called them. The rest of us completely ignored it. We were fully aware that authority had no authority if enough people ignored it. Also back then, there were plenty of trucks in the parking lot with gun racks full of guns, no one was ever shot and no one thought anything of it. We would smoke weed on breaks and I never once in 4 years saw a cop, let alone a lot of cops with dogs. Millennials would have had a heart attack from all of that freedom.
My old man was a teacher. He taught a hunters safety course in school as an “activity period” and would leave his Model 70 .270 in an unlocked closet in his classroom.
(BTW, he was one of the authority figures we laughed at)
Hell, even into the mid-90’s when they started bringing drug dogs into the school, a buddy got pulled out of class because the K-9 unit flagged his car. So my buddy had to go out and pop the trunk, he just a had a trunk filled rifles and shotguns. The cops apologized him for pulling him out of class and the principal wrote him a pass to take back to class.
I think a lot of it started with Columbine. That created a scare that fed into the 90’s wave of PC and started the schools on the path to extended babysitting. My friends and I was always rebellious, but good at covering out tracks and mostly just mocked authority from the anonymity of our out-group
Degenerate gamblers really are a thing but they comprise a small percentage of the population. Outlawing gambling hasn’t changed that.
Here’s the thing, I can walk into a casino, lose $50 to $100, and call it a night. I had a fun time, and I knew going in I was probably going to lose that money. After all, those fancy casinos weren’t built by giving away money. It’s cheaper entertainment than buying tickets to the local sportsball game.
‘Ugly’ people earn more, but at what cost?
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/28/opinions/ugliness-premium-opinion-drexler/?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool
tl;dr- it causes white women to vote for Trump
***
This also makes sense if you think of attractive women in politics as those we view as the least threatening. Sarah Palin: attractive and nonthreatening — a woman, perhaps, other women could relate to and a woman men could control. Hillary Clinton: less conventionally attractive and a threat to so many (perhaps some of the 53% of white women who voted for Trump?); a woman fewer women could relate to and a woman men would not be able to control.
***
Would not be able to control her?
Men would be tripping over themselves to serve her agenda. Congressmen (and women) would be voting for her party’s legislation. Male bureaucrats would work expeditiously to see her work effected. Male pundits would defend it on national TV. You want to see someone who is hogtied by men? That’s Trump, baby.
*Sigh* These people still can’t believe that anyone would vote against Clinton because they didn’t like her policies or positions? Or how they envisioned her presidency? No, everyone was afraid of a strong woman, who unwoke women ‘can’t relate to’, while all the men just hate women and just want to control them.
IOW, ‘everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary is stupid and frightened’. Jeez, we’re coming up on a year since the election, can you finally stop trying to get a do-over? You got your recounts, tried to influence the electoral college, tried to get Congress to somehow prevent him from taking office, and the minute he was sworn in you started impeachment plans. I wish we could just get a short respite from all of this.
Sorry folks, but if Trump can get tax breaks this year, especially corporate taxes, the economy is going to get stronger and stronger. And if that happens, all the pink hats in the world aren’t going to get you a winner in 2020.
“…cant believe anyone would vote against Clinton because they didn’t like her policies…”
There is a lot of that going around. Just within the last two days I was accused of saying something in support of Trump because I worship him personally. You cant get them to understand this isnt about the individual, its about policy and practical outcomes. They are cult of personality types. They would fit right in with the Moonies.
“…all the pink hats in the world aren’t going to get you a winner…”
But what if they can finally make it the law that middle aged men in dresses can pee next to your 8 yo granddaughter in the public restrooms? Where is your economy then, huh? A strong economy and employment security wont mean shit, will it?
“…cant believe anyone would vote against Clinton because they didn’t like her policies…”
Well, that’s unpossible because she’s a woman and it’s time for a woman president, because. Also worked for black guy. So shut up and stop being sexist and racist.
Don’t forget: Stop voting against your best interests. I heard that often from Hillary supporters talking down to Trump supporters.
Yeah because my best interest is paying higher taxes.
It’s projection. Look at how they hated Thatcher.
I’m tired of the “anyone who voted for Trump did it because they are racist, sexist and homophobic”. In 2012 my neighborhood was plastered with Obama signs. In 2016, there were very few Hillary signs, one or two bedraggled Bernie sign a and some Trump signs. The interracial gay couple down t he street had a Trump sign. They stuck a little American flag in one corner and a rainbow flag in the other corner.
But, you know, only racist, sexist homophobes voted for Trump. No other possibility.
I have neighbors that work in intelligence. They were furious over the server and still mad about Manning. The Manning complaint was why did no one in the chain of command go to jail/lose a job.
Prepare for 7.5 more years of this.
“The interracial gay couple down t he street had a Trump sign. They stuck a little American flag in one corner and a rainbow flag in the other corner.”
This is priceless.
We do a similar game at the social club. Five dice, three rolls per person, the first roll to began scoring must contain a five, and ones are wild. The first roller may choose to forego additional rolls if he likes his score well enough, and the rest of the round is capped to that number of rolls. The point is to collect as many of the same value as possible, so a first roll of all threes and a five would be about as unbeatable as all fives in three roll (judging by the games we’ve played, I haven’t actually run the probabilities). Winning a round excludes the winner from additional rounds, and rounds are played until one loser is left. The loser picks up the tab for the next round, but gets to choose what’s poured. Lots of liqueurs end up getting knocked back, but also gross mixed shooters if the loser feels ornery.
(No idea whether it’s legal. The club was established so members could smoke in the bar, and membership dues are paid, it’s closed to members and their guests, and technically the only money changing hands is between the losers and the bar. But rounds can be worth $40-50 in booze, so it’s not exactly poker for quarters.)
Derpetologist, I was catching up on old threads and saw you posted something about “requiring addresses on employment applications is discrimination”.
I was reminded of Cambridge, MA’s Harvard Square homeless bookseller. TOS had a story on him. I remember one of the bits of paperwork either the City or the State wanted was a list of addresses of all of his employees. His response basically was, “They’re homeless, they don’t have addresses. What am I supposed to give the government?” Unfortunately, even though I remember him being quoted commenting on the address requirement in a newspaper, I can’t find a link to a story which includes that.
I think the guys who make Wolfenstein have a little too much fun with their world building.
Some of my fondest late teen to early twenties memories involve poker with friends. It is a social activity that is great fun. I suck at poker for the most part, but it was still fun. Hell, I suck at all gambling so other than fun games with friends I don’t gamble.
One of my earliest memories as a toddler is crawling up into my dad’s lap and reading off the numbers on the cards.
I’m in a Friday night poker game with a group of people from around the county. Outside of work and my family, those are the people I socialize the most with.
Does this link work?there are 60 pictures in this album
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOaIVwNoUh-6Hi6W-7FJllCEHJe6Mea2m0v1Tca8RQxtYAEm2x059PEQ-QvNlb5MA?key=VjZDeDByZTdTYU5GU0x3c3YxajZrdmUtRGZZcFBR
Works wonderfully, thanks!
Glad someone checked it out, I do those in Summer, after work when I just want to be cool and not melt.
We would put on youtube documentaries on the War and pick up tips for realism, great fun!
Nice. The set I referred to early was supposed to be a father son project, but he got demoted to sperm donor after he walked out on the family so I finished it myself.
Do you have a particular WWII doc you like to watch? Any recommendations?
The Russians did 12 part on the War from THEIR viewpoint, it was fascinating, and not really a propaganda Doc at all.
Here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A6UWkK2U4s&list=PLnNmfyY_ccRHl0yAJZy3r5Nfq2-Xr22di
Sweet. My college room mate was Azeri, his grandfather fought at Kursk. At got some good small scale historical perspective from him. This looks good too. Thanks
Very nice, thanks!
Very nice. Saw it further up as well.
My first thought was: how’d he spend so much on this, theres not that much going on? As I scrolled through I saw how much care was taken in putting little tidbits here and there, goings on as it were. Not such a huge fan of WW2 stuff anymore, but thats quite cool. Maybe in a few years if this place is still around I’ll post my waterloo stuff. 😛
I’ll be watching for that, My Scene is an advanced Base/refuelling depot That the U.S, troops stumbled upon, and all hell is about to break loose.
If you could see closelier you would notice several Historical Peoples, and yes, Detail!
about 1400 hours work all together
The article started ok by by the end i was kinda losing wood. What kind of bitches does 26$ buy in Korea? can’t be the premium kind, it aint 1953
Least they’re more expensive than Romanians.
I couldn’t say I am usually so good they don’t charge me in the end.
A Pimps love it different than a Squares love
The STIs are payment enough.
Hey you haven’t truly experienced gonorrhea until you have tried Romanian gonorrhea
Romania is one of the last places on earth where syphilis still rots your face off like its the 1600s.
+1 Renaissance zombies
that sounds like some pretentious form of lettuce found at the salad bar @ Zabars.
Hey, I found one of these tucked away in an old book. Any idea if it’s still exchangeable?
Lots up on ebay for a few bucks apiece, but I have no idea if they’re prints or what’s the deal. Thought I’d ask.
That could by you some toasted salted sunflower seeds which you can crack in your teeth and then spit out the husk on the sidewalk like a true Romanian
Nope.
Figured.
I wouldn’t want to get rid of it, anyway. I think it’s from my granddad’s time tooling around Europe. He would go with delegations of nuclear scientists to Russia, then travel around the continent for a couple weeks with grandmom.
file under: NO GOD! PLEASE NO!!! NOOOOOOOOOO
Lessons From Chomsky
Some things I’ve learned from his writings…
by Nathan J. Robinson
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/07/lessons-from-chomsky
***
Libertarian Socialism
Libertarian socialism, the political tradition in which Noam Chomsky operates, which is closely tied to anarchism, rejects this distinction as illusory. If the word “libertarianism” is taken to mean “a belief in freedom” and the word “socialism” is taken to mean “a belief in fairness,” then the two are not just “not opposites,” but they are necessary complements. That’s because if you have “freedom” from government intervention, but you don’t have a fair economy, your freedom becomes meaningless, because you will still be faced with a choice between working and starving.
…
Pragmatic Utopianism
Consider Chomsky’s approach to voting. Chomsky believes simultaneously that (1) voting is not a very important part of politics, because it doesn’t change much thanks to the combination of the typically awful candidates and the low impact of a single vote and (2) you should still vote, and if you live in swing state, you should vote for the Democratic candidate for president.
…
Many people on the left are critical of “science,” or what they call “scientism,” because they believe that in imposes some kind of rigid “technocratic” or “Enlightenment” framework on how humans should think, suggesting that Western forms of reasoning are superior and insisting on a kind of “certainty” about scientific belief that ignores differing points of view. In turn, many people in the sciences reinforce this conception by defending a dogmatic conception of science; people like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, who use mockery to defend what they call “reason,” affirm the worst stereotypes about the “scientistic mindset” that cannot see its ignorance due to its certainty of its own rationality.
…
And yet, Noam Chomsky is a nice person. Or at least, a person who is very kind and generous with his time. It’s well-known that Chomsky responds to nearly every email sent to him by a member of the public. And when he does so, he is never rude or patronizing. In fact, he is almost limitlessly patient. I know this from personal experience, having emailed him quite foolish questions several times, despite not knowing him at all personally. (He also gave me incredibly kind words of encouragement after I sent him a book I had written, which he read in full.) I’ve never seen anything quite like Chomsky’s willingness to engage with strangers.
***
Keep your eyes peeled for the Martian linguist!
Damn that is some derp. Kudos! But, uh at least one of those things is not like the other.
“That’s because if you have “freedom” from government intervention, but you don’t have a fair economy, your freedom becomes meaningless, because you will still be faced with a choice between working and starving.”
See also, every socialist dictatorship in history. Sometimes in the USSR they worked and starved.
Robinson is not very creatively inclined, considering that even in systems of limited freedom like we have now communes still exist to practice his idiotic notions of a ‘fair economy’. They just tend to not be that functional or survive for that long.
There was a great article someone posted on the other site a year or two ago, I can’t find it now, but it was great, it was interviewing ex-hippies who had all eventually left one of those communalist societies they set up in the 60s. It was interesting because most of them totally bought into the idea until the problems started to emerge and they wanted to change. The TL;DR version was that as soon as they had kids they thought it was a bad environment to raise children and wanted them to have a better life.
I’m pretty sure that’s why every totalitarian society in history has sought to either destroy the idea of family or use it against their subjects. Concern for your family’s well being is a real threat to those who want your undivided loyalty. Though some have managed to instead leverage that concern to blackmail you into compliance instead. Like the norks.
Some still exist. Although, I think that place is more hippie semi-mystic than outright commie.
So many big words, so little sense
If the word “rape” is taken to mean “a belief in fairness”
“you will still be faced with a choice between working and starving.” Well that seems like freedom to me
I think you’ve managed to find the primordial well of derp with that guy. Congratulations.
OK, so what other systems should use to figure out truth from fiction, listen to the village shaman while he’s tripping on shrooms?
Whatever system ensures him and his ideological bedfellows end up on top.
When the masses were more into superstition than science, contemporary western science was great. See the founding of National-Socialist Germany or the USSR, for example.
Good God, what a bunch of gibberish.
Lessons From Chomsky
Some things I’ve learned from his writings…
You too can be an evil shit who applauds Pol Pot and get away with it.
Bonus NJR!
Why Is “The Decimation of Public Schools” A Bad Thing?
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/11/why-is-the-decimation-of-public-schools-a-bad-thing
***
Understanding why DeVos is the Education Secretary from Hell therefore requires examining a more basic set of principles, to understand just why the persuasive-sounding conservative case on education is actually deeply horrifying.
…
But introducing profit into the school system is very dangerous, for a simple reason: it creates a terrible set of incentives. If we hand a voucher to a for-profit private school, or give a large grant to a for-profit charter school, there is a strong incentive for the school to give as little in return as possible. After all, since a for-profit corporation exists to maximize value to shareholders (not value to students), for-profit schools should try to spend as little money educating students as possible, in order to reap the largest financial gains. If you don’t have to spring for new lab equipment or new textbooks, you have no incentive to do so merely because it would benefit the students. A for-profit school is no longer concerned with the interest and wellbeing of those who attend it.
***
…said the guy who went to an expensive, tax-exempt, private school
OK, I need to cut this one short lest I overdose on derp.
So they kill every Tenth student?
Holly fuck that is stupid. Off course all government workers have only the purest incentives the little angels. We should pay them more money for being so awesome.
That explains why those evil for profit restaurants keep giving me such tiny portions.
They don’t have your well-being at heart. That’s why they overserve you, and they don’t meter your salt intake, and they don’t force you to eat “heart-healthy” entrees. Because they’re not looking out for you.
Perhaps one of the most economically ignorant sentences ever written.
I can’t even decide if that’s wrong or not since it appears to have no real meaning.
viva la revolucion!
How come no one saw this coming? You libertarians think you’re so smart, so why didn’t you see this coming? State Capitalism! Once the glorious revolucion is restored, this state capitalism shall be stopped and then utopia! Forward comrades!
I wonder if they will inflate the ballots counts if this report is true.
Also Raimondo has a sad. Once again a socialist hated by neoconservative turns out is really terrible.
I just heard on the radio that Maduro has ordered the people to vote. I say he sends troops out to round them up at gunpoint.
There’s a critical shortage of toilet paper, and a lot of extra ballots.
So it seems like the people of Venezuala can kill two birds with one stone with this one.
In Venezuela, toilet paper might actually be worth more than their ballots. Both in terms of monetary and moral value.
Do I really have to the math on this one? Venezuelans should wipe their asses with the ballots, then drop that into the ballot boxes.
Where do I sign up for your math course?
*Removes pants*
“There’s a critical shortage of toilet paper…”
No, there are plenty of 5, 10 & 20 Bolivar notes. It’s not like they can be used to buy anything.
In governement, failure is success. We destroyed the economy with our socialist policies. We just need more power and money and we will get it right. We promise.
Brawndo asked in the Sunday morning links what our current subscriber number is. Thought I’d repeat the answer here for those who missed it.
We have 585 intrepid registered members.
I keep telling people about our little World, but I think they look and run away, STEVE SMITH?
BRUTAL? if you don’t already know the meme, this place is creepy
/runs away lurking in corner
Hey, even when you DO know the meme, this place is creepy.
But simultaneously Certified Family Friendly.
this place is creepy
Huh? Did I miss a memo? I don’t find this place creepy at all.
*SP raises an eyebrow at DEG*
Let me try that again. Maybe I’ll close the tag correctly this time and the edit fairy won’t make it look like I’m crazy.
this place is creepy
Huh? Did I miss a memo? I don’t find this place creepy at all.
/Sarc my good Man, admit it, we are an odd group, and I’m glib to be here, I’m free to Gambol, as re we all.
GAMBOLING!
Probably because you’re the one making it creepy. :-p
Hows that? and why are You leaning Left?
I need a beer
Hey, even when you DO know the meme, this place is creepy.
Is it bad that I find this place pretty toned down? I mean, this isn’t /pol/ or the BME forums.
Praise Kek for that. /pol/ is good in small doses, but I only ever lurk, because they can also be some creepy fucks too
It’s a trial by fire to be sure. But if an intrepid stranger can get through all of it, sanity relatively intact, then I think they may have found a home.
Speaking of which, is there anyone out there who came here, not through the Reason pipeline?
Me. I’d heard of reason, that’s about it. Never looked at their website, didn’t even know
that had one, as such, other than everyone has a website. Probably got linked here
from somewhere else, and, desperately wanting the approval of strangers on the
internet, registered for an account in the vain search of gathering a narrowed gaze.
Uh, I guess the correct answer to your actual question is “yes”.
Out of curiosity, is anyone turned away? Any potential Tulpa/Mary Stack nutters trying to get in?
And what became of John? Someone last month was posting claiming to be him, but I haven’t seen him (or his imitator) around since then.
Any non-troll is welcome here. Trolls, however, are dealt with expeditiously. We’ve had very few bannings. I think everyone figured out very quickly that we can and will control the level of assholery in our own house, and they behave accordingly.
Any sighting from TOS writer? the Jacket maybe lurking?
Writers
/Sticky keyboard
Since we don’t require real names and will accept basically any working email address for registration purposes, we don’t know. And we don’t much care one way or the other. *shrug*
We’re our own thing.
Repeating my post from the other now-dead thread: Is the funding/donation level sufficient?
We are doing fine. Thanks for asking!
John poked his head in, looked around and didn’t come back. I also remember Swiss announcing a while back that someone with the handle Tulpa was trying to register, and was getting blocked since if it really was tulpa, ain’t none of us got time for that.
I’m told he’s got family issues he’s dealing with right now.
Ah, then that is unfortunate and if he’s lurking, I wish him the best
But we’re certified for that sort of thing.
We’re as family friendly as an Aristocrats joke.
Yeah, I haven’t even seen John on the old site for quite a while. Not sure if for the same reason or the big fight he got into with one of the writers.
Doesn’t John often just disappear for awhile? Has he posted on the old site.
I don’t think so, not in a while.
It seems like the actual Tulpa wouldn’t try to register as Tulpa, since he’s been known to switch handles on a regular basis. Hence the ‘Fuck off Tulpa’ meme. So it seems like anybody trying to register as Tulpa would more likely than not be a gimmick account like American Sociaiist.
That was him, for sure. If not, it’s the best John imitation ever. Not sure why he hasn’t been back.
No Tulpas or Tony or AmSoc (not the squatter) to flame?
We didn’t engage him enough, or Thicc Thursday was insufficient for his, -ahem- particular tastes
There was some ass who was initially around in the first couple weeks that might have been Kizone, but they got catbutted and banned pretty quickly. HM has complained about some trolls trying to register, and Free Society left voluntarily a week or two ago.
He was getting a little shitty at the end, as I recall. Probably best for all parties.
Most of his posts were either vaguely racist whining, talking about ‘European’ supremacy, or women not knowing their proper role. I’m told the founders thought it was bad optics.
Makes sense. We don’t need any StormFronters any more than we need Antifa
It wasn’t even that, really, as much as if you disagreed with him even one iota, you were some SJW loon in his eyes. He never argued in good faith, never admitted he was wrong.
Being overly contentious is the ultimate sin here.
584 of them are Tulpa socks, of course.
I know wrong thread but thanks for creating the site! The atmosphere is much better than last year at Reason.
Oh noes, it’s Winston’s mum posing as Winston! Heh, sorry man, I couldn’t resist. That’s the typical Glib welcome.
I thought it was FUCK YOU! At least that’s what I got when I came over,
If they say FUCK YOU, that’s an extra special welcome, it means luv in Glibertarianese.
That really means something, You REally,REALLY like me!
/not Sally Field
“Why bless your heart.”
The politest FU I ever received in North Carolina.
I got a Fuck off Tulpa from two people.
We’re all Tulpa now.
No, I’m Poppy.
Red Karen Morley was hotter than Pfeiffer.
You’re freaking me out, Poppy.
You might be Poppy, but everybody knows that Poppy is Tulpa.
Rick C-137 assured me that it means ‘Peace among worlds.’
Hehehe
Shut up Tulpa.
There’s still time to get Matha Hall Findlay to replace Turdeau Jr.
“Prime Minister Zoolander” is the proper nomenclature thank you very much.
It depends. Used to was the greeting was, “Fuck you Tulpa!”
Hey Winston. Your mom says mmppfff. I think that means hi.
Ha
Also many years back I was an avid reader of Rockwell and Raimondo before dumping them for Reason. And now I have dumped Reason for Glibertarians. So am I a cosyokelglibtarian now?
You’re now some sort of Yokel.
Reason since the election
https://youtu.be/S73swRzxs8Y
The public school system is one reason I am wary of anti-Muslim sentiment. The public school system was supposed to save us from reactionary Catholic theocracy after all and that had no future ill-effects.
OT: The Kings of Summer is quite good. Alison Brie’s in it..
There’s a topic? where?
Alison Brie gets naked in Glow. This is a public service announcement.
Her or Brie Larson?
It was definitely Allison Brie.
On the other hand, looking up what Brie Larson has been up to, I see that she’s been signed to play Captain Marvel. The Marvel Captain Marvel, not the DC Captain Marvel. That seems like a decent casting choice, and good for her.
So what are the chances that Venezuela has a very Communist “elections” in the future?
I posted this earlier
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-40769737
“Gripped by political crises”, that’s what they call Socialism today? Huh
That pitiful Maduro mammal obviously needs to enforce harder. In a sense it one area I agree with your mewling progressive meat sacks.
I thought they already had them? A bit old, but note the winning coalition
For the election two large coalitions were created; Polo Patriótico, which consisted of the Fifth Republic Movement, the Movement for Socialism, Fatherland for All, the Communist Party of Venezuela, the People’s Electoral Movement and some other minor parties, and Polo Democrático consisting of Democratic Action, Copei, Project Venezuela and Convergencia.[2] The result was a victory for Polo Patriótico, which won 121 of the 128 seats
So, all different shades of pink and red. I just cant understand why Venezuela is in the shitter.
“Pollo Patriótico”
I posted too late earlier.
I just heard on the radio that Maduro is ordering people to go vote. I am betting he sends troops out to round them up at gunpoint.
+1 Soju Mixers FTW.
Oh goddammit, first we get Gillespie’s fairly dumb take on the transgenders in the military thing that of course ignores all the actual issues associated with it and instead just virtue signals and talks about other nonsense.
So let’s double down and publish a Steve Chapman article talking about it again only even dumber and with “wrong side of history” idiocy.
What, in your opinion, are the issues?
The entire discussion is stupid because they’re framing it as identity politics rather than people with a pre-existing medical condition. Western militaries do not accept people with far less severe conditions that require far less medical attention and resources. If they had some kind of inherent benefit that would balance this out (i.e. say a large manpower base or unique abilities, like how the Israelis use autistics for specific roles) it might be worth it but that’s simply not the case.
With current technology it will always be preferable to have non-transgender servicemen rather than transgender. If two decades down the road we’re cloning pituitary glands and installing them into transgenders’ brains that changes the equation (in fact, female-to-male transgenders will likely be preferable to women in that scenario).
So how about this…
Simply don’t pay for the treatments/surgery. The military doesn’t, or at least didn’t 6 years ago, pay for cosmetic/elective surgeries, why would it for this? You couldn’t say, “I don’t feel like a complete woman as a B-cup, I need you to pay for my boob job.” I see no diff.
As long as you can do the Jay-Oh-Bee, we don’t give a flying fuck how you identify. If you can’t do the J-O-B, you go down the road. IOWs, just like every other job in the world.
Still requires a logistics chain to supply hormone treatments regularly, and you live in a fantasy world if the social justice groups don’t throw constant temper tantrums demanding the military pay for surgeries, treatment and transportation costs until they do.
As long as you can do the Jay-Oh-Bee, we don’t give a flying fuck how you identify.
And this is what I’m talking about, you’re playing identity politics, when it’s really a pre-existing medical condition that disqualifies them from service. We don’t allow diabetics or people with hepatitis to serve regardless of whether they can do the job, because they have medical issues. This is the exact same thing.
Dude!
It may well be a medical issue for some. And it may not be for others. As far as I know, you are still considered trans pre-treatment if you are living as the opposite gender and many elect to not get the surgery. For the ones that aren’t mentally ill and don’t allow it to interfere with their duties, there are no issues. Your assumption that this is always a mental illness is dubious.
Your argument is black guys are prone to sickle cell anemia, therefore black guys shouldn’t be allowed to serve.
The discriminator for service should be…can you do the job. If yes, we’ll let you do the job.
Yes, and we’re dealing with reality here, not Frank’s Magical Libertarian Paradise. The surgeries and treatments will be expected to be paid for, and will be. I don’t care what you think ‘should’ happen, I am working in the real world.
As far as I know, you are still considered trans pre-treatment if you are living as the opposite gender and many elect to not get the surgery.
Yes, let’s double down on the stupid and allow privates, being massive shitlords, to identity as transgender without getting surgery. No potential abuse or effects on morale there. “Oh, I’m a girl now sir, guess you’d better let me shower with the women”. You’ve managed to come up with any even worse idea than letting transgenders in.
For the ones that aren’t mentally ill and don’t allow it to interfere with their duties, there are no issues. Your assumption that this is always a mental illness is dubious.
Hey Frank, search for ‘mental illness’ in any of my comments. Oh look, I didn’t actually say it was a mental illness at all, I said it was a pre-existing medical condition that disqualifies someone from service. Stop arguing like this is identity politics, that is the most profoundly stupid way to view this issue.
Your argument is black guys are prone to sickle cell anemia, therefore black guys shouldn’t be allowed to serve.
No, it isn’t, that’s a moronic strawman. Black men do not require constant medication to prevent them from getting sickle cell anemia and being massive emotionally and mentally unbalanced. Even if there were some medical complications with the black population, they represent a substantial manpower pool to recruit from so there might be the potential for some leeway. Transgenders do not.
The discriminator for service should be…can you do the job. If yes, we’ll let you do the job.
Repeating your virtue signalling over and over again does not actually address the reality of the situation. When you have a pre-existing medical condition that disqualifies you from service, the answer to ‘can you do the job’ is ‘no’.
No, you’re not. They don’t pay for elective medical procedures now. There is no need for them to start.
For the purposes of this discussion, a distinction without a difference. Your claim is that it is a medical condition that precludes service…Based on what?
This shows that there are between one and six thousand transgender people serving on AD currently. They were already here, before it was allowed in the open, and were apparently doing the job just fine.
Nor do all Transgenders. Your claim, that being transgendered requires hormone treatment, requires surgery and is in and of itself, an unqualifying condition is simply false. As evidenced by the up to 6k trans currently serving. If their situation makes continued service untenable, by all means, medically discharge them.
So they are being massive shitlords…meaning they can no longer do the job. Discharge them. Dishonorably. That will happen exactly twice.
Lastly…
My friend, you don’t want to get pissy with me…
…here.
eg
I was having a rational, unemotional discussion. If you can’t, you will end up not having any.
Actually that’s just an estimate based on the already-very-iffy ‘normal population’ % applied to the armed forces.
and its wayyyyyy generous. just as a start, it assumes that transpeople are going to be represented in the military in equal proportions that they appear in the general pop.
and it gets worse from there, because it will include ‘anyone who has sought therapy for gender-dysphoria symptons’.
I read the Rand study they use as a source, which is itself just a compendium of “every other study already done on the trans population” The more you poke their sources, the flimsier you realize the whole thing is.
The fact is that the *most* reliable data on the trans population comes from surveys of psychologists who are required to do evaluations of patients to get approval for sex-reassignment surgery. And they can’t reveal data on actual patients, so in general they are just offering estimates of ‘how many people they see a year on average’, things like that. What the data doesn’t show is how many of those patients are denied, or how many back out and never actually ‘transition’ at all… or many other salient qualifiers.
Basically, i’d be very skeptical of any data other than the headline “% of the total population” figures, and data we get from actual post-op medical records.
Anything regarding ‘trans people (in any possible stage of transition) who have served/are serving’ (a la Chelsea Manning) is pretty much just making stuff up out of thin air. The link you cited pretty much says that =
In theory that is a great idea. Ruck up, chamber a round and move out. But…….
I have a friend who is transgender and a relative. So I have some experience this but am by no means an expert. Plus I spent a career in the army. As was pointed out above, there are a host of less serious medical issues that preclude entry or retention and nobody is storming the barricades over the rights of those with asthma or red/green color blindness. There is no sjw cred for them for those medical conditions but this issue is catnip for people who overwhelmingly will never have to live with the consequences of their advocacy.
It is a unfortunate fact that the % of suicides among trans people far exceeds the their cohort in any examined population. Combine that with both people I know were absolute emotional messes for 3-4 months while one set of hormones overcame the effects of the their prior dominant hormones. This emotional basketcase time is completely routine according to my friend. Military personnel have regular access to weapons, either the governments or your friends. The chance of suicide or harming others with the weapons is severe and it will be other people that have to clean up the mess. Harm does not even have to mean violence. Manning was hardly a model Soldier and if a Iraq and Afghanistan were not on possibly (probably) would have failed the enlistment screening criteria. He indiscriminately stole and released more classified material than anybody else in US history.
Readiness. Soldiers busting a knee playing basketball (for many years the most common reason for medical evacuation from Iraq) or getting pregnant play havoc with units preparing to deploy or even deployed. If a Soldier is going to be non-deployable for multiple years then they are a net detriment to an organization because the battle rosters will be filled. Anybody not deploying at their turn means somebody else, fair or not, will be placed in the slot. Does this mean all non-deployers are of no value? Of course not, but the disruption is real so what is the readiness benefit of increasing they number of non-deployers?
Down range medical protocols. Very few people end up working at big HQ’s next to hospitals. Those hospitals are staffed primarily for treating acute conditions or combat care. That is why people who get Type II diabetes have problems staying in the service. It is difficult to deploy them, and they can deploy only if their self care fits within tight limits and their chain of command goes to bat to get them a medical waiver. (From experience that is tough to get.) Non-deplyable? Thank you for your service, bye bye, and say welcome to the VA. Transgender people must take regular hormone and sometimes other treatments that can require regular tweaking for a number of years and as as they age. That is not available down range. So at a minimum it will require evacuation to Germany.
Current DoD policy does not require the bottom to match the new ID which can lead to issues. Within a unit, the leadership can train, counsel and observe. Does the effort match the gain? I can’t throw a broad statement at that. Deployed or even in field conditions, mass shower facilities are common with multiple units all using the facilities which can lead to issues. This could be mitigated by mandating bottoms meet new ID’s since folks try to not stare at unknown others junk in showers/latrines/gyms. (Standard disclaimers apply.)
Retaining sunk costs. If the military has a really skilled individual which it has placed a great deal of time and resources in training (linguists, sonar operators, SOF etc) it does make sense to try and retain your investment. But that is the case for all skilled serving people. Will the factors briefly outlined above lead to retaining one while being the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for several departing?
Perhaps the issue can be resolved by permitting the individual a no pay “time out” from service while they undergo treatment and the process. Then when they demonstrate that they are again medically and mentally stable and still fit for service permit them to return to service at their rank and years of service from when they hit pause. I agree that DoD should not be on the hook to pay for the process, but should be on the hook for ongoing medicines etc once the individual returns.
Anyway that is my $0.02
Asthma and color blindness will prevent you from doing the job. Is your contention that being trans will prevent you from doing the job?
These are the basic requirements to be in the armed forces and these are the requirements to be a pilot/infantryman/mechanic/SEAL… Do you meet them? Y/N
If Y, please proceed to your next phase of training.
If N, thanks for your interest in national defense.
The simplest possible rationale i can think of:
– People with Gender Dysphoria have the highest suicide-attempt rates of any group of people on earth, including people suffering from major mental illnesses like schizophrenia
Whether or not you think GD should be categorized as a mental illness or not can be set aside; what matters is that the “risk profile” of this group is very very high.
Given that the condition of being ‘trans’ isn’t in any way connected to race, religion, or one’s biological sex (in the sense that transgenderism isnt exclusive to men or women)…. disqualifying transgender people from service isn’t a matter of categorical discrimination so much as it is a qualitative measure of one’s fitness.
Simply put = if you can’t square what’s in your head with what’s between your legs, you’re not in a condition to wear a uniform and serve in the military.
Its not the job of the armed forces to fit round pegs into square holes, or to conform to the peculiar needs of every minor subgroup of people. Its the other way around: you are either mentally + physically sound and capable of serving, or you aren’t. Institutions like the military aren’t like college: a requirement for employment in many fields, etc. There is no requirement that the military SHOULD take all willing volunteers. It is not a social-institution, but a practical one with a limited mission. As such, it should only be taking on personnel which help it conduct its missions with the greatest efficiency, least complexity, etc..
Ironically…
You know who else has a high suicide rate?
I heard Kristin Beck interviewed on Wilkow’s show last week. She stated the suicide rate for transfolk of military persuasion (I assume active and discharged) is less than the general trans population. Kristin also was not trans in the navy, and stated he would not have transitioned when in the Seals as it would have had too big of an effect on the team. At least that was my take on what was said.
Reading the comments above, my 2 cents is no voluntary medical treatments should be covered or extra leeway given for the new shiny political pony. There are standards for any job in the military. You meet them or you don’t. Your chosen life being dependent on any number of hormone treatments would most likely be a disqualifying thing I would imagine.
i have no reason to think that’s untrue at face-value, but i’d be extraordinarily skeptical of any claims like that, because the population of “regular”, civilian trans-folk is so tiny that getting reasonably accurate data about them is very very difficult. Saying anything statistically valid about the tiny fraction that have served in the military seems … implausible. we’re talking about maybe a few hundred people?
And those aren’t people who ‘transitioned’ prior to joining (or at least i’d assume not; they’d be people who decided later in life. And – if i recall correctly – the data tend to show that the people who transition when young are the most at-risk. there is almost a sub-class of people like your Bruce Jenners, men who don’t really engage with their gender dysphoria until post-middle-age. That group i think is far less characteristic of the risk-pool than the people who basically never develop any “normal” gender identity to begin with.
Kristin Beck did not give any information to back up the claim, so you are probably right. I was just relaying a claim I heard. I agree that people like Kristen, or Bruce are in a completely different category than young people. They have worked through what ever they are dealing with and make a decision later in life. I am not sure the military is the place to be making those choices. It could be why Beck waited to deal with it until he was out. I was stressed as fuck at times in my 4 years of service. And I was in the pussy branch. Aka the Coast Guard.
i think you’re missing the point here. the numbers you’re talking about are “marginally different (20-30%) from civilian rates”
Suicide rates among LGBT (as a lump category) are also “higher”… but we’re talking ~2X the norm.
The suicide rates of people with gender dysphoria are about 10X that of the average population. Almost half of all of them attempt suicide; the completions is less-staggering but still many-times that of even ‘at risk’ groups like LGBT as a whole or of mentally-ill populations. Its a ‘death rate’ comparable to people with major terminal illness.
Maybe you were being glib, but i don’t think its a detail that is easily handwaved away as an “everyone has ‘issues'” sort of thing.
Yes, I fully understand that.
So you’re going to discriminate against the other 50% because some of them might eventually kill themselves?
Same could be said about hiring vets. Or dentists or doctors for that matter.
Its not more “discrimination” than it would be to deny people who have been diagnosed as schizophrenic.
Schizophrenics spectrum disorder affects about 1% of the population. Gender Dysphoria affects 0.3%. We ban schizos from military service, but we think that we are obligated to accept people who think their genitals are “the wrong ones” (and who kill themselves far more often than anyone on the planet)…. because why? Because “fairnes”
If your argument is simply “why not”? the answer is “because we already discriminate MANY people based on fitness”. Military service isnt’ some natural right, last i checked.
If i am to understand you correctly, the military should accept anyone regardless of mental health condition?
You seem to have overlooked the point i made earlier.
Simply being “higher” rate of depression/suicide is not evidence of some distinctly disqualifying disorder.
there is a different from people who are “30% more likely to be suicidal” and groups which are 600% more likely.
One is just variance within a normal range. the other has a condition which results in a large proportion (double digits %) of them to kill themselves at exactly the age when you’d be considered prime-military age.
the question seems to me to be = “why SHOULD the military be forced to admit people with such a huge risk potential”?
I agree that some TGs have mental problems and can’t do their jobs. Many can (and are).
If you are Schizo, you are diagnosed with a disqualifying illness. TGism isn’t an illness itself. You can be a TG and have absolutely no issues that would prevent you from complying with the requirements of the job. If you happen to be one of the TGs with mental disorders, certainly those TGs should be disqualified.
We have phases of training designed to determine whether you will have the ability to meet the requirements of the job. Boot, OTS, ROTC…weeds out a large percentage of the nutjobs. Specialty training weeds out those that aren’t suited for a particular skill. Some always get through but no system like that is perfect. But I don’t see why wishing you had boobs and a nice pair of pumps would disqualify you from flying a jet.
I think the link I posted said doctors are 100% more likely. So, 30% more likely, 100%, 600%, where do you draw that line?
And I suspect the 50% who try suicide are the same ones with the mental issues who would be legitimately disqualified anyway.
There’s a difference between having a mental disorder and belonging to a group that has a higher percentage of mental disorders.
I thought we were against collectivism here? 😉
begging the question. “one is a disqualifying illness because it disqualifies you.”
As i said in the very beginning: whether Gender Dysphoria is an “illness”, “disorder”, “condition”, or some genetic aberration like a 6th toe is simply semantics – the issue is the risk level that condition presents, and whether it is similar enough to other high-risk conditions (like schizophrenia) that disqualification makes sense from an administrative POV.
You are just asserting that one requires disqualification and the other doesn’t…. well, “because”. You are not actually addressing the reason i made that comparison in the first place.
Schizophrenics are demonstrably *lower risk* in many ways. they have lower suicide rates, less physical complications (no constant hormone imbalance), etc. Once you’ve been post-‘break’, and stabilized on meds, there’s no reason to fear an already-medicated schizo than someone currently in therapy for pre-op gender dysphoria.
sure, ‘some people’ technically included in the (overly broad) definition of Gender Dysphoric can serve and do the job. So? i assure you that many many many more schizos can as well. why do you believe that the schizos deserve ‘discrimination’, but the people who want to cut their dick off don’t?
Your case seems to be (unless i’m missing something) is that everyone should have a right to serve in the military, and that reasons for disqualification should be limited to the most-extreme cases.
I don’t think this is even a reasonable starting point. As i made clear in the very first comment I made above, the military is not a social institution that is a necessary component for living in modern society (like say ‘colleges’); the military has a limited mandate, and its job should be to deliver on that mandate with the least expense and the greatest efficiency.
That is not consistent with this idea that “everyone who meets requirements (but still has huge-risk potential) deserves to be admitted”
no, the link you posted showed different occupations all of which were “1.2x” to “1.9x” higher risk of suicide- that’s the equivilent of “20% more” to “90%” more. None of which were “2x”.
As i already said LGBT (as a whole, which includes the super-high, super-small group of trans people) ranks much higher than all of those, with 2-4X higher rates of suicide.
That 4X rate – the highest – would amount to 16-20% attempts, 5% completions
None of them come within a country mile of the whoppingly huge % for Trans people, which as (again) already noted is more like 50% and (unknown double-digit) completions.
Where do you draw the line?
How about (again) “the people who have a condition which is more suicidal than people with severe disqualifying mental illness like schizophrenia”
I think the military can certainly make accommodations for people who begin therapy for gender dysphoria while they are already serving. As things like the UCLA and Rand study you cited point out, the population described with those (mostly made-up) numbers includes everyone from “gender bending curious” to “refuse to go on living unless they get rid of their dick”. Of course people in the low end of the spectrum don’t present any problem.
The reality is that the numbers of actual “transitioning” people IN the military is )(#*$()@ tiny. as the same Rand/UCLA studies say – ‘probably in the few hundred’. Trying to make generalizations about that group’s prospective fitness is absurd and a waste of time.
the fact is that the military disqualifies people based on fitness based criteria. and its unreasonable to pretend that such a high-risk, super-small population somehow deserves to be catered to when there are far larger groups of people “discriminated against” who receive no such special consideration.
Yes, that’s EXACTLY what I’m saying. One is a known disorder. The other is a group with a high rate of disorders that may or may not lead to suicide. Do we discriminate against all blacks because a higher percentage of blacks go to prison? No, we discriminate against the actual criminals (in theory).
And honestly, I’m not sure what likeliness to commit suicide has to do with the ability to perform in the first place? I’m sure there are numerous doctors who’ve committed suicide who were very good at their jobs.
And if you’re seriously concerned about the cost of their healthcare…suicides have ZERO associated healthcare costs.
Anyone able to perform their duties within the confines of good order and discipline. Yep, you bet. But no, it’s not a right. If it was a right everyone would be eligible.
1.9 splitting hairs
Let’s be clear on my position. Discrimination based upon the ability to perform your job is fine. Mental illness, physical attributes…but the program should be set up such that those discriminators are directly linked to job performance and if you can hack the program you get to contribute.
I stuck around there for ten years for the commenters. It only took me a month or two to figure out that most of the writers were closet pinkos. The 2016 election has gotten so many people to drop the masks or come out of the closet. Trump has done us a great service. It does not surprise me that TOS is mostly drivel or that the writers are working on going full prog.
The thing that got me was Soave saying that Pussygate was proof of Trump’s authoritarianism when Reason would never say that about any other politician. Like Bill Clinton. Or Suderman saying that Pence lying at the Veep debate was proof of authoritarianism as if Pence was the first politician to lie.
Then there was the DNC coverage. Trump’s speech at RNC got a lot of coverage but Hillary’s was barely covered. Almost like they either liked her speech or were told not to attack it…
Then they stopped the “Libertarian Casee for…” series as if they didn’t want to write anything Pro-Trump…
Yeah, the scummy TOP MAN bias Reason has is worse to me than any of their other left-wing tendencies. If the Trump coverage showed anything it was that Reason will excuse and ignore career politicians’ depravity but will flip the hell out if some outsider pleb acts in the exact same way, or even in a significantly less awful way.
So we get Obama being a poster boy for narcissistic personality disorder for eight years and they say nothing, while they call Trump a narcissist on day two. Trump supporting the Turkish government shows how he loves autocracy, while Obama supporting the exact same government several months earlier is not reflective of any character flaw. It’s disgustingly transparent.
I know see what Rothbard meant when he complained about Cato moving to DC. Being libertarian will get you ostracized there.
And Reason/Cato have a very Fabian Top-Down sensibility where cocktail parties and studies will convince the Deep State to enact libertarianism reforms since they too aren’t socon rednecks. This does lead to Top Men attitudes.
Then there were how many of the writers are friends with Weigel and consider being compared to him an honor…
Always funny to see Reason talk about “the right side of history” since the people very much do not see libertarians as being on the “right side” anything.
So yesterday we went to an event for alumni of our college, and we got to chatting with a young attorney who had just moved to the area — he had been working with the Obama administration, and needed new work, go figure — and was now involved with a non-profit dedicated to civil rights in colleges. Apparently, according to him, there’s a big problem with colleges winking at athlete rapes in college, and specifically cited the Baylor situation from years back when Ken Starr was an administrator at the school (I’m flabbergasted that an Obama appointee would want to go after someone like Ken Starr, no irony there). And he’s worried about the Trump administration changing policies on title IX so it will be tougher to go after this scourge of campus rapists.
So I asked him about the male students whose lives had been ruined by the lack of due process in the Obama Title IX crackdown. I finally did get him to admit that, yes, due process for the accused should be an important thing — but he then had the caveat that we shouldn’t be ‘overemphasizing’ due process if it infringes on the ability of young women to report rapes. At that point I realized I was at a social event, there was no going anywhere with this with him, and changed the subject.
Young male attorney, who doesn’t think the 5th Amendment is all that important, when it comes to targeting other young males. I guess that makes him “woke”? No doubt he believes he’ll always be safe because of his well-intentioned efforts, even though he is a cis-gendered straight white man. Good luck, buddy.
I’ve seen quite a few people argue that we should end jury trials foe rape cases…
Have you tried to explain to them that would put Atticus Finch out of a job?
That much be such a confusing book for those folk, isn’t it? On the one hand, it’s a black man who says he’s unjustly accused. On the other, it’s a woman saying she was raped, and the woman must be believed.
My feeling’s that they’d be in the group that was trying to lynch Tom (not because he’s black, of course, but because he’s a rapist, and why should he get a trial?)
The thing that gets me is how they ignore the fact that Jim Crow and the lynch mobs were heavily predicated on the notion that there was a Black Rape Culture.
And ignoring due process and other natural rights.
You can’t lace up for the big game if you’re doing time in prison- solved the problem of supposed campus coverups of athlete rape right there. Don’t expect or require schools to investigate shit, especially a criminal matter.
this is like getting a woman “too pregnant”
either you have it, or you don’t. pick one.
So at any point did that hotshot attorney say that when rapes were reported the cops should be called in to send the rapist to jail?
At that point I realized I was at a social event, there was no going anywhere with this with him, and changed the subject.
I hope it was after saying something like, “You said you’re a fuckin lawyer? Huh, no shit. I thought they taught law, due process and the constitution in law school.”
The Miami Herald, always good on Venezuela, with their story on today’s vote
Three highlights:
1. There are still the true believers. And they already know the result, and the nonvoters will be punished.
2. This part is hilarious.
Forgot to add #3: This is how they’re going to show the huge turnout in favor of Maduro:
You botched the link. Is it Gilmored or Sugar Freed?
“we want peace. We will impose our empire. They will have to get in line.”
War is Peace. Behold, the useful idiot.
Very well-written, Evan. More, please.
Where’s Sheldon Richman to complain how Evan has ignored corporate welfare and US interventionism with regard to South Korea?
So let’s talk about income equality. This is a problem for libertarians since despite massive increases in wealth there are people who still think wealth is unequitably distributed. And I’m sure many here will point out actual government policies that do in fact that…
And I’m not too fond of the “Louis XIV and John D. Rockefeller didn’t have smartphones and jets!” Sort of rebuttal. By that reason The Great Depression was nothing to worry about because of radio, female suffrage and talkies.
Me, I’m an atheist, but the whole ‘thou shalt not covet your neighbor’s ass’ covers it pretty well.
I’m doing OK for myself, and I’m not going to whine because my coworker got the promotion I was hoping for. I can either be better at my job, or find another job that appreciates my talents more.
Among the the 10 commandments, The G man listed don’t kill people, and don’t take their stuff. Also. If you want an ass or oxen of your own go earn it.
The reasoning behind that is that even the poorest Americans today are much better off than poor people decades ago. The inequality scolds (as I call them) seem to have this premise that you are better or worse off solely by your relative position to others; e.g. a rich guy getting richer somehow makes life worse for regular people. They are implicitly stating that there’s a cause-and-effect relationship between the Koch Brothers having a ton of money and regular people having trouble paying the bills.
Libertarians bring up smartphones, for instance, because it shows how much better our lives are even if the dollar amount of income is not too impressive. Twenty years ago, it would have costed a fortune to have a little computer that you could carry around in your pocket. Today, even poor people have them.
Have I missed any good discussions, here or at Reason, about the JFK assassination?
Some guy shot him, or something
The Kennedys were the Kardashians of the 60s.
Another thing that really annoys me about Reason is the overly worshipfulness of technology.
By this I mean the notion that modern tech will resolve all social problems and lead to unlimited peace and prosperity.
And yes there have always been people who claimed that Teh yutes and modern tech will be bad.
However there have always been people who claimed that Teh Yutez will cleanse society and politics of corruption and lead to a new dawn. And that modern tech will lead to unlimited social harmony, peace and prosperity. How many Edwardians predicted WWI? How many people in 1990s predicted the War on Terror?
A look at twitter and Facebook will show that modern tech has not solved social issues.
Jesus, give it a rest. If I wanted to talk about Reason, I would comment there.
The more annoying part of Reason’s technofetishism is twofold: one, it’s people like KMW who are clearly fairly ignorant of the subject matter they love so much (in her case, robots) so it comes off as very “I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE”. Two is the clear psychological reasons for people like Ron Bailey to be obsessed with immortality. It’s like watching his midlife crisis play out.
I wanna be a Cylon
/53
Origin all or reboot?
Damn autocorrect.
modern, they Badass. Even better, put me in a Cylon Raider and I would explore the Universe as a ship/Human Hybrid
Frakking toaster sympathizer. Your son will be ashamed.
Shhhh, He is, believe me
Awesome reply BTW
Did you remember Gillespie’s article on Michael Jackson being a post human being?
Anyway Bailey’so robot fetishes is so silly I couldn’t help but reference Threshold.
“Just because it’s new to you doesn’t make it novel or great.”
WE MADE THE CYLONS, they want REVENGE ON THEIR GOD, Humanity
I am merely a Congislier for a Tauron Crime Family, a simple Man