I’ve been avoiding the weekly torah stories recently because Devarim (Deuteronomy) is, as the name suggests, mostly redundant. Almost all of it is Moses-as-Castro, giving an endless rambling speech. Difference is that everything Moses is saying has smiting behind it, so you gotta listen up if you’re a Hebrew. But I thought that this week’s sedra, Ki Tietze (“When you go”) was a delightfully diverse collection of laws which cover everything from rape to haberdashery, and illustrate why the Judeo part of Judeo-Christian is totally wack. Disclaimer: there’s 74 laws laid out in this sedra, so no way I’m going through all of them. I’ll give you the Reader’s Digest version, but it’s still going to be a halacha mash-up.
Moses begins this section of rattling on with a discourse on how to treat lovely women who are captured in the endless inter-tribal battles. Now those heathen tribes, they just went ahead and raped anything with a vagina who rated over a 5. But Jews have to do it better. The law here is that you have to pen her up for a month first, shave her head, let her grow her nails, and only then, once she’s been humiliated, uglified, and left to ruminate for a month about the upcoming horror and remembering the vision of you eviscerating her parents in front of her, you can give her that good raping she’s been waiting for. Much more civilized, dontcha think?
And being the kind and generous folk that (((we))) are, when you get tired of her shit, you have to let her go rather than sell her into slavery. Well, let’s be honest, once you drive them off the lot, they lose about half of their resale value anyway, and chances are that by then, there’s dents and scratches, further reducing the value. So no big loss.
Moving on, as someone who loves cultural fusion and who cheerfully married a shiksa (OK, well, three different shiksas), I am completely damned under the law of kilayim. Kliayim is the prohibition of various sorts of fusion- the called out examples are donkeys and oxen in the field, wool and linen in clothing, and co-planting in vineyards (Moses was unclear about whether having grenache and mourvedre grapes together is forbidden, but very clear that you don’t plant wheat or rosebushes among the grapevines). Rabbinical interpretation has used this as a metaphor for mixed marriages (as if the Phineas story weren’t explicit enough) and I’m sure there’s some Jew redneck out there who has used it to justify keeping separate from the coloreds. But basically, if your shirt is a cotton-polyester blend, be prepared for the stoning.
Now here’s something parents will love. Have a rebellious or otherwise shitty son? (((We))) have a solution for you! If mom and dad agree, the son is brought to the village elders. Once the parents declare that he’s an asshole, then… you guessed it, stoning! Think of it as retroactive abortion, and a precursor to modern Jewish thought that life begins when the child gets an MD or LLD.
There’s fun and games for the (((girls))) as well, but this one has to wait until marriage. Let’s say her hubby gets sick of her shit and decides he wants a divorce. In these pre-no-fault times, a common excuse was, “Slut wasn’t a virgin when we got married.” So, she’s ripe for the stoning. But wait. If her parents show up with the sheets off the marital bed having bloodstains (don’t even ask how they got them, it was probably a Linda Tripp “save that dress” deal), the guy gets a good flogging and has to pay her parents 100 shekels. That’s not the worst part- he also is forbidden from ever divorcing her. I may bitch about my alimony, but at least I don’t have to live with my ex.
Here’s one of the truly weird ones. Suppose you’re a married Jewess and your hubby gets into a fight with some other guy. Regardless of who started it, be careful about helping him out. If you help your hubby by grabbing the other guy by the nuts, guess what? Your hand gets amputated. They didn’t teach you about this in Sunday School? They should have.
I bet the Sunday School teacher didn’t tell you about this one, either: if your nuts get crushed or cut off, you aren’t allowed to enter the synagogue or the Temple. Nor can you be part of a minyan (the required ten (((men))) needed to have a prayer service). So remember to always wear your cup when you do sports, and give up that lifelong dream of being a harem eunuch.
Speaking of testicles, let’s say you have a wet dream. This does not make Yahweh happy, so if you want to avoid the stoning, you have to immediately get the hell out of the encampment (they were in the desert at the time), wait until late afternoon, take a ritual bath, then wait until sundown before you can return. Obviously, when one saw teenage boys running out of camp in the morning, the jeering would begin. And if one of the poor kids broke out in acne, he had to go to the priest for some folk remedy or other. Left untreated, this would lead to… stoning.
By the way, if you divorce some bitch and she remarries, if the new hubby gets just as sick of her shit as you were and tosses her out, don’t even think about trying to remarry her. If you do, yep, stoning.
OK, I saved the weirdest for last. Your brother gets married and they either have no kids or just daughters. He dies. Your duty, then, is to fuck the widow and knock her up. And keep doing so until she extrudes a boy-child. OK, nothing weird about that, it’s fairly common in tribal societies. But let’s suppose she’s an uggo, I’m talking a two-bagger, and you can’t imagine sticking your dick in it, much less be able to get it up in the first place. What then? This was desert tribes in like 1000 BCE, so turkey basters hadn’t been invented yet. Well, as you might expect, there’s ritual. The uggo pulls off one of your shoes, whacks you across the face with it, spits on you, and declares, “Thus be it to he who will not bang his brother’s widow and put sons in her belly.” And after that, the guy is referred to as “The guy who lost his shoe.”
Seriously, you can’t make this shit up.
Almost all of it is Moses-as-Castro, giving an endless rambling speech.
Not Moses-as-John-Galt?
Galt’s only weapon was boring you to death.
Castro was a smithing kind of rambler.
But Jews have to do it better.
Makes me feel sad for the rest.
so just a few minutes ago, you Jews were hiding cures for cancer and AIDS, so you could kill the Goyim. Did I spell that right? So I’ve been trying to learn about the history of religion lately, but I’ve mostly been researching Christianity. Does anyone here have some good sources where I could get started on the history of Judaism?
Specifically, I’m interested in the origins of the religions.
The Jewish religion seems to be a direct result of whichever Pharoh got rid of the old gods and started worshipping the sun. This was the invention of monotheism, and after his death his memory was erased from Stella’s, etc, the old order returned, and many of his followers forced into exile.
It’s muddled, due to the attempt to war said Pharoh from the historical record and the appearance of the sea people, some who were the ancestors of the Semites, and who apparently were refugees in Egypt around that time. Their providence is largely unknown: there were large groups of refugees from the Mediterranean, as well as groups that were basically acting like the Vikings did later against Britain.
Or… Adam and Eve made babies.
Well, I ‘think’ in the early days of my studies, that Christianity followed the Sun god cult of ‘Mithra’ which seemed to have originated in India and spread to Persia about 3000 years or so before Christianity was contrived by the Romans in the 3rd or 4th century AD. But I am for whatever reason thinking that Judaism preceded Christianity by many years.
The Adam and Eve thing may actually have a basis in reality in that all humans today may be descended from one Y chromosome male and one mitochondrial Eve.
There is one mitochondrial Eve; I believe the y chromosome has many more contributors.
Interestingly, Attila the Hun had more descendents in Europe than any other male.
Seems like I read the same story except that it was Genghis Kahn who was the father of most Asians.
It sounds plausible. I find it interesting that the largest land empire in history fell apart very soon after the death of Genghis.
There was Kublai.
My mistake. The death of Kublai was the end of the Mongol empire.
@Denver what about Tamerlane?
Hammer: way to late and way to little too preserve the Mongol Empire.
Unless words don’t mean things I don’t see how this could make sense.
Well, I ‘think’ in the early days of my studies, that Christianity followed the Sun god cult of ‘Mithra’
It also sounds like you’re claiming Christianity was invented by the romans hundreds of years after it existed.
Not claiming anything. Just trying to learn. Please proceed.
Christians were Jews who believed Jesus was a messiah.
Some Jews didn’t buy that.
Jews are a group of monotheists. How far back they go and where their beliefs derive from is unlikely to be known by anyone as it was an oral history before a written one.
I doubt any evidence for something like when or how Jews came up with monotheism exists. Given the dearth of written evidence for the existence of entire civilizations thousands of years ago deriving where a thought in someone’s head came from sounds like a silly endeavor and anyone claiming an answer is making quite a bold claim.
I read The World’s Religions by Huston Smith decades ago back when I was studying religion and philosophy. I read it a couple of times actually. One thing I liked about it was that he talked about the difference between the religion as set out in the text versus practice by the adherents which was very informative. It’s one thing to understand the religion of Hinduism but how is it practiced, and how does it manifest itself in the broader culture. I checked my study and didn’t see it, I probably gave it to one of the kids.
TOC and excerpt. Not sure if what you’re looking for, but I found it interesting.
http://a.co/5QfQpFE
Thanks, JB. Will check it out.
I think maybe Jewsday might need to be monthly rather than weekly. it feels like you’re stretching.
that said= rhodes piano badassery
Bite your tongue; I love Jewsday Tuesday.
Seconding the (((Tuesday))) love. Knowing that there must be hundreds of pages of record of very smart people arguing all these rules through centuries if not millennia warms my heart.
(((thirded)))
(((fourthed)))
If you can’t say anything nice…oh, wait, we wouldn’t have any comments at all. Forgot what site I was on there for a minute.
That’s not fair. I’m amazed at the level of civility in the arguments here, especially compared to TOS.
…usually
Shut up, Tulpa!
Yes, I am pleasantly surprised, as well. (It was a joke.)
Nice
yeah, whatever.
i suspect my day to day life is 10X as jewy as yours.
Isn’t that Sinbad O’Connor in that photo? Is she Jewish? She sounds like Irish.
Skinhead O’Connor. She’s an Irish Nazi.
She wasn’t my time, but looking up “sinead o’connor jewish” led to this at the top of the search. Her being conflicted between Fa and AntiFa seemed to be her niche back in the day, shall we say…
The only thing I remember about her is when she destroyed her short career by tearing up a picture of the Pope on SNL. Not that her career was going to go anywhere anyway.
I don’t want to know where you got that second picture.
No joke: from SugarFree.
Of course you did. Who else would have it. lol
It’s from the ancient lost archives of Phallusionopolis.
dude on the bed looks a little too into it considering the scythe
Don’t judge!
Someone secretly misses Blue Dogs terribly and wants to give them a petting again next year.
I always figured her for a Nazi.
LOL? Are you just now getting that violent communists are going to destroy your brand, Nancy? Is there some sort of Olympiad Retard reward that we can give you to make you feel better? Just take the advice of your recent savior, Obama, and take a pill, grandma.
Maybe aim the Botox through the skull rather than in front of it, maybe paralysis of a few parts of the brain will ease her hurt.
well, at least she figured it out, which is a lot more than you can say for 90% of the rest of the Democrats and RINOs, so I’ll give her Chief Advisor credit for that.
In addition to the polling, she also has access to Intel on the committee, so she might have seen something damaging there, as well, and is trying to get in front of it. There’s a theory online I read that DoJ was collecting evidence at Berkeley, possibly for a much larger fed prosecution for Antifa, so if she knows something like that is coming, she’s canny enough not to hand her enemies that plum.
Somebody has seen the *real* polling numbers, methinks, and has belatedly realised that the squares truly don’t like violent commies, or their fellow travelers.
People seriously have no memory, they are now agreeing with Trump’s description of the events in Charlottesville but not many will openly recognize the switch. The baseball game shooter is also memory holed. I shouldn’t be surprised anymore we have always been at war with EastAsia.
Watch the poll in the Virginia governor’s race in November. Would not be surprised if Charlottesville has an effect on that race, albeit not the kind that I think the media is expecting.
I think you’re right about that. I think I read that support for taking down the statues, in and of itself, is a lot lower than the political class and media wants to let on. Now you add in that same class making excuses for violent communists, I think you’ll find that anyone who can avoid being tied in with that lot are going to benefit.
Could be the beginning of the end? Hope so.
http://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/29/1960s-radicals-condemn-antifa-not-uncommon-societies-produce-hate-squad/
hmm.
I don’t get it.
I mean, a lot of times I can see the original background rationality behind the (((rules))), but some of these just don’t add up.
That’s the point- it’s weird, random shit. You do it because Yahweh said so, not because there’s an actual reason.
List of Moses’ pet peeves.
Could be he just wanted to see what all he could get people to do.
Heh, that’s a great hypothesis: Moses was trolling. At the end of these speeches, he’d go back to the tent with Aaron, crack open some wine, then they’d laugh their asses off while fist bumping.
What the fuck can’t you get people to do when you come back off a mountain and convince people you brought back the word of God?
Stop worshiping golden calves?
BTW thrak, your piece on rights was interesting. I wasn’t so much picking on your friend for arguing from ad absurdum. Just wanted to point out how ad absurdum tends to be the only tactic people use when making the case against the NAP or free speech. Arguing over the fuzzy edges of a principle is fun and all, but when that is all we do, it gets annoying and ultimately becomes unproductive.
Thank you for the compliment, but it wasn’t me. You must have me confused with trshmnstr.
Ha! Damn, I’m terrible with names.
Here’s a tip I learned from a bouncer who knew every regular on a first name basis.
If you want to remember someone’s name, try to say the name 3 times in a conversation. He would go “So I’m looking at your driver’s license John Smith. When is your birthday John Smith? And what is your sign John Smith?” If John Smith could answer those questions, he didn’t have to worry about getting carded again and could be greeted on a first name basis by the bouncer.
Peak AGW Derp from CNN
Right at the top of the page
Jeffrey Sachs is a professor and director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.
Should “news sources” not publish opinion pieces, or is it that CNN mostly/only publishes leftist pieces, do we need to reinstate the fairness doctrine?
Should “news sources” not publish opinion pieces, or is it that CNN mostly/only publishes leftist pieces, do we need to reinstate the fairness doctrine?
Or Sachs’ argument is just imbecilic and deserves to be mocked. Can Jeffrey Sachs demonstrate that the water in the Caribbean was unusually warm for August? Keep in mind, the average for August is 85 degrees. If it isn’t warmer the whole “Global Warming Caused Harvey” is anti-scientific garbage. Yet here he is calling people liars and demanding their resignations based on it.
Isn’t this the first hurricane to hit America in like two or three years?
Try twelve. Amazing.I’m sure that’s due to Exxon as well.
What? Wasn’t Sandy a hurricane? Pretty sure we’ve had other hurricanes since Katrina.
Yup, it was a hurricane, albeit a less powerful one. What made it more damaging was that it came after an unrelated storm system a few days before and it hit extremely high population areas.
Twelve? Just a coincidence, I’m sure…
That’s incredible, and, as Zenome shows, the media is blaming global warming for an increase in bad storms.
The media is straight out misleading the American people.
It’s been twelve years since the last major Gulf hurricane, but it’s a generally less active area for hurricanes than the Atlantic Coast. Oddly, though, even the Atlantic coast has had relatively few major hurricanes to make landfall besides Sandy.
There have been quite a few bad Pacific typhoons in the last 5-10 years or so, but trying to blame any major storm on AGW is horribly misleading, at best. Even the worst “sky is going to fall” types in the climate community won’t attribute short-term or medium-term weather events to a few decimals of increases in the Earth’s average yearly temperature. All weather is local.
The last major hurricane (Cat 3 or higher) to hit the continental U.S. was Wilma in 2005.
I sat through Wilma. Man did I ever get drunk. The night after was amazing; no power at all and I could see the stars in the middle of Miami as if I were in the Oklahoma panhandle.
OK panhandle /= no light pollution
I can just take that right there and proclaim CNN as morons and science deniers. Is there anything else needed? I don’t think so.
Man can’t these people just shut the fuck up for just one day about this shit?
The Yassa of the Mongols is better.
http://elibrary.sd71.bc.ca/subject_resources/socials/mogol_great_yassa.htm
***
5. Whoever takes goods (on credit) and becomes bankrupt, then again takes goods and again becomes bankrupt, then takes goods again and yet again becomes bankrupt is to be put to death after the third time.
…
11. He ordered that all religions were to be respected and that no preference was to be shown to any of them. All this he commanded in order that it might be agreeable to God.
…
30. The Yassa of Jenghiz Khan forbids lies, theft and adultery and prescribes love of one’s neighbor as one’s self; it orders men not to hurt each other and to forget offences completely, to spare countries and cities which submit voluntarily, to free from taxes temples consecrated to God, and to respect old people and beggars. Whoever violates these commands is to be put to death.
***
Those are all pretty reasonable. I used to have a biography of Ghangis Khan; he was a brilliant conqueror in regards to how he governed conquered territory, development of an alphabet for Mongolian, the Chinafication of the Mongols, etc. Brilliant administrator and general.
“Conquering the world on horseback is easy. It is governing that is difficult.”
“Do not go if afraid. Once gone, do not be afraid.”
Khan left a shit load of descendants as well.
Khan never hurt anyone so he is completely innocent and justified in that proclamation.
KHAAAN !!!!!!!
It’s amazing what a little motivation, some horses, and some composite recurve bows can do.
Yep
Management Secrets of Genghis Khan
http://www.veritablehokum.com/comic/management-secrets-of-genghis-khan/
Trump is literally Genghis Khan.
Interesting – the wording on some of those there and more specifically at your link would definitely imply cross-cultural discussions – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan – mentions talking to Christian missionaries in addition to Buddhists, Muslims and Taoists – although he doesn’t seem to have been a fan of (((kosher))) or halal.
Mongols had contact with Christians since the 7th century
***
According to popular anthropologist Jack Weatherford, because the Mongols had a primarily nomadic culture, their practice of Christianity was different from what might have been recognized by most Western Christians. The Mongols had no churches or monasteries, but claimed a set of beliefs that descended from the Apostle Thomas, which relied on wandering monks. Further, their style was based more on practice than belief. The primary interest in Christianity for many, was the story that Jesus had healed the sick and survived death, so the practice of Christianity became interwoven with the care of the sick. Jesus was considered to be a powerful shaman, and another attraction was that the name Jesus sounded like Yesu, the Mongol number “9”. It was a sacred number to the Mongols, and was also the name of Genghis Khan’s father, Yesugei.[20] However, somewhat in contradiction to Weatherford, there is written evidence of a permanent Nestorian church in Karakorum[21] and archeological evidence for other permanent church buildings in Olon Süme[22] and Ukek.[23] The use of non-permanent (yurt) churches is also well-documented.[22]
Again according to Weatherford, the Mongols also adapted the Christian cross to their own belief system, making it sacred because it pointed to the four directions of the world. They had varied readings of the Scriptures, especially feeling an affinity to the wandering Hebrew tribes. Christianity also allowed the eating of meat (different from the vegetarianism of the Buddhists). And of particular interest to the hard-drinking Mongols, they enjoyed that the consuming of alcohol was a required part of church services.[24]
Women in Mongolia were known to indicate their faith by wearing an amulet inscribed with a cross, or to be tattooed with a cross.
***
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_among_the_Mongols
And of particular interest to the hard-drinking Mongols, they enjoyed that the consuming of alcohol was a required part of church services.[24]
Apocryphal tale says that Vladimir of Kiev rejected Islam because it would have demanded giving up alcohol, thus prima facie proving it’s not the true faith.
By same anecdote, Judaism lost because they couldn’t keep Jerusalem.
(((We))) just want you to think that Judaism lost. All is going according to plan, right Mr. Lizard?
Someone on The Old Site said that the reason Islam never really caught on in China is because they love their pork too much.
Interesting stuff. I guess one can probe around the entrails of any religious belief and come up with “laws” that are the equivalent of some state’s still existing law that “an automobile must be preceded by a man waving a red flag.” All the Jews of my acquaintance would laugh at these things as being pure nonsense, but I wonder if Orthodox Jews still believe/practice those which won’t get them locked up by the secular authorities?
I wonder what Moses would say about modern, secular laws- like needing a license to cut hair.
“What?! That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Let’s go stone the bastards!”
a delightfully diverse collection of laws which cover everything from rape to haberdashery,
Or as we know it today, The SugarFree Opus.
They’re completely vague on details. A constitutional convention scares the hell out of me at this point given the level of ignorance about its original intent.
https://www.conventionofstates.com/
What I’d really like to get back to is the origin of religion. It’s just such an abstract thing that I believe it’s not apparent how anyone came up with it. No doubt that once someone came up with it, they quickly started to realize the incredible power it could provide for a small group of individuals or even to a single person.
I’m not sure it’s terribly abstract, though. The concept of complex systems arising purely from chance or interaction of millions of “simple” cause-and-effect occurrences is more abstract than the idea that these complex systems have creators or forces that have consciously put them together. Once you get there, attempting to propitiate said creators is pretty rational too, as is division of labor a smaller group who will spend all their time dealing with it. Then it’s a simple matter of letting small groups of smart people interact for a long time and you get all kinds of different complex systems out of them!
Well maybe if you were a shaman, you could get out of more mundane chores and people are gullible. Once the domestication of plants and animals let to food surpluses and settlements, you had more folks wanting to get in on the scam.
I suspect it started as very simple substitution magic: i can draw a deer! That’s magic by itself. Seems a small step from being able to draw an animal to being able to use that drawing to have an effect on the animal. That and shaman eating mushrooms.
***
Lewis Wolpert argues that causal beliefs that emerged from tool use played a major role in the evolution of belief. The manufacture of complex tools requires creating a mental image of an object which does not exist naturally before actually making the artifact. Furthermore, one must understand how the tool would be used, that requires an understanding of causality.
***
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_origin_of_religions
Language is a big part of it too. All languages have the ability to discuss things which are remote in either distance or time or both.
The first tool was a hallucination and the first word was a dream.
Mind. Blown.
I think it’s the Australian aboriginals, one of the earliest peoples (45-65k years)who refer to their origin as ‘The Dream Time’.
Ecclesiastes contains most of the life lessons that I think religion can teach; I consider the apex of religious philosophy. Anything that can capture the essence of life that well can’t be all bad.
I like Jesus saying “the greatest law is this: do unto others as you would have done unto you; and forgive other’s digressions as you would have others forgive yours.
Stolen from Hillel.
Not quite. With the Greatest Commandment Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and adds some follow-on references – also from Hebrew scripture. (Matt 22: 35-40 ; Mark 12:28-31 ; Luke 10:25-28).
Herbert Spencer had a very interesting theory about that, which you can read in his Principles of Sociology.
He believed that all human societies would come up with a belief in a “double” that resides in each person’s body (many people today call this a “soul”). It comes about because of things like dreams, which are thought by primitive people to be something that actually occurred, e.g. the double left your body in the night and went off on some adventure. Death is though to to be the permanent departure of this double. Of course, most primitive people fear the effects of a vengeful spirit. They chalk up almost every bad occurrence to the meddling of an angry double who has been upset by some actions of the living.
Naturally, the doubles of powerful individuals (like a chief or a very powerful warrior) are propitiated by the living so that they don’t come back and wreak havoc. Offerings are made to them, songs and dances are held in their honor, their burial place becomes a holy site, etc. With the tendency for legends to become exaggerated over time, anecdotes about these spirits eventually form the basis for gods.
He points out a lot of details that indicate that most early gods are thought to be super-powerful human beings. The Greek gods live on a certain mountain, enjoy the smell of burned meat, and sometimes produce children with ordinary humans. Countless cultures, in some form or another, entomb the dead with possessions like weapons, food, and money, indicating that they think these things will be needed in whatever place they are going to next.
I’d love to go on and on about it, but I have to get at least some sleep tonight. Principles of Sociology was an extremely interesting read, as Herbert Spencer’s books always are.
Good stuff, Akira. This is why I love Glibertarians. Open minds.
I dreamt the other night that I dipped Graham Crackers in cheese, what does that mean?
I don’t know, but I had a genuinely frightening dream last night that some man in 1890s clothing was being constricted and strangled by a magically animated broom (like from Fantasia) and I was trying to pull the broom off of him but it was really fucking strong.
You ever awake in sleep paralysis? Now that’s scary shit. You’re mind is still dreaming, you’re body is awake, but you can’t move. You’re seeing dreams through your own eyes, with the real world behind the dream. Scary shit. But I never dreamed about brooms. But not as scary as dreaming about eating Graham Crackers with cheese, *shiver*
I suffer from sleep paralysis. You want to know the trick? Don’t sleep on your back. That’s it. Just don’t sleep on your back and you won’t have those terrifying experiences. I had those dreams for years: stopped sleeping on my back, no more night terrors. Easy peasy mac n cheesy.
Kanashibari.
It means you live in Wisconsin.
How about: I’m alive so where did I come from? Where did anything come from? Why do things exist as opposed to not existing.
What should you do? If you do something it’s because that something is better than what you were doing. If some things are better than other things, then some things are worse. What is the set of good things and bad things (morality) and why do those things exist? Where did they come from?
I figure all humans probably came across those questions by the time they were 15 without any prompting as they are both obvious, unanswered, and necessary for anyone act rationally. Any investigation into them is going to derive an answer that can only be philosophical and religious in nature. That’s probably the best explanation.
You seem to be pushing some concept of someone inventing god to trick others and get stuff and everyone falling for it. Is there any reason at all to believe that? That would mean our ancestors are all exceptionally stupid, and incapable of realizing people may trick them. I see no evidence people a few thousand years ago were genetically stupider than us today. Is there some accelerated evolution that occurred the last 100 years. The Greeks were doing trigonometry 4000 years ago, the Romans were involved in all sorts of political deceptions yet they would have to be as gullible as 5 year olds to fit this model. I have trouble believing the entire world was simply tricked by someone saying “I speak to god, do what I say.” You don’t think they may have figured “this guys blowing simple up my ass to gem me to do what he says.”
“How about: I’m alive so where did I come from?”
No doubt about that in modern humans. The question is where did that idea/question come from and why? But going back, you seem to disagree with my question about Christianity originating with the ancient religion of Mithra, the sun god, which may have arisen in India. So to start our conversation on the right track, can you tell me why you disagree with that? Thanks.
As far as I’ve learned, Mithraism was a cult among Roman soldiers, earliest I’ve heard was around the time of Christ. What sources do you have that it was from India and earlier than christianity?
Here’s just one reference. There’s many easily found.
Mithra
That link says Mithra was a Persian God (not India, I know it tries to correlate Mitra with Mithra, but provides no evidence), before Zoarastrianism (which as far as we can tell was the first monotheistic religion). So the fact this one ancient god was revived, as your link says during the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD, into a monotheistic cult after Christianity somehow retroactively affects Christianity?
“Before ancient religious reformer Zarathustra (Greek name Zoroaster) gained influence in the region during the 6th century bce, the Iranians had a polytheistic religion, and Mithra was the most important of their gods.”
I’m not getting what you are arguing. When is the first historical references to Christianity. I’m not trying to prove or disprove anything here, just trying to learn.
You are trying to assert that the monotheistic religion of Christianity is based on one god of a polytheistic religion, even though that god was postdated by a 2 monotheistic religions which directly correlate to it. However, the traits of the worship of Mithra that you are trying to connect to the argument are actually post Christianity. So it’s not really a causal as you try to present it.
Many of the ancient gods share very similar traits, even sharing identical birthdays. I have no idea how to find it, but I saw a documentary on Netflix about the almost exact myths that Jesus and… was it Set?… shared.
The thesis was that the change in Earth’s position in the constellations; i e. the Coming of the Age of Aquarius, was paramount to these myths, and that the symbology of the myths revolved around astronomical events.
It was compelling.
Oh lord, don’t go down the path of the that vapid Zeitgeist doc, so many unsubstantiated things presented as true, that was a bane a decade ago, anyone who thought they were smart took that as gospel without actually knowing history. That and Loose Change were the harbingers of the idea that people will believe anything they see on the intertoobz.
Apparently, Dec 25, Christmas, was also the birthday of the god, Mithra, which was symbolic for the rebirth of the sun after the winter shortest day of the year. Going back, there is also the Epic of Gilgamesh, which has many similarities to the Bible, including a great flood.
Recently, scientists are saying there is evidence of religion at Gobekli Tepe, an 11,000 year old site found in Turkey. This is going back to the Neolithic, so very interesting stuff. Apparently, religion has been with us a very long time. Still cannot fathom how people thought this up out of thin air.
Much research needs to be done on Gobekli Tepe. It is sad how unknown it is. I agree, there are similarities. Dec 25 was adopted by the christians to try to draw the pegans in. Gilgamesh does speak of a great flood. I’m not arguing any of that; but the idea christianity is stolen whole cloth from anything else is absurd and unsubstantiated. That’s all I’m saying. And, as a person of faith, in response to “Still cannot fathom how people thought this up out of thin air.”; perhaps it wasn’t. Perhaps it is all based on a shared experience.
But the things you’re saying are like me asserting, without evidence, that predecessor of Akhenaten must have been the Pharaoh of Exodus.
“perhaps it wasn’t. Perhaps it is all based on a shared experience.”
Part of what I’m trying to get at. Sorry if I sound cynical toward religion. I’m not. I just like to pursue the truth and learn.
As do I, but this Mithra business is a misunderstanding of history, from my perspective, by people simply trying to dismiss religion. As the history usually presented in these things usually blur lines more than Alan Thicke’s son.
FWIW, I think that theory that Akhenaten and Aten worship were the precursors of monotheistic religions has at least some weight to it. Not there is necessarily a direct link between the two, but it at least shows that the idea was floating around before the Jews, and a lot of the older OT texts seem to indicate that there were other gods, but they were garbage compared to YHWH.
What I find intriguing, and why I brought up Akhenaten, he wasn’t the first born (Exodus said the first born all died) and all of a sudden when he came to power he switched to a more (not wholly) monotheistic religion. Seems like that’s what what one would do if you saw the power of YHWH. Of course, outside these two things, there is nothing to substantiate this claim, and as thrakkorzog notes, this is long before the established time line for the Torah. But it is a lot more interesting idea to me than all these ‘Jesus is every other Sun God’ things, because Son and Sun are homophones in English (but not the languages these stories come from)
It’s not “sun” and “son”: don’t be daft. If a monotheistic religion is going to develop it makes sense that it would revolve around the sun. That has nothing to do with the idea of the son of God.
The other thing is that religion seems to be hard wired into the human brain. I suggest that a common religion is the best way to unite a society, and therefore being religious supplies an evolutionary advantage.
I had a very difficult time accepting it from the beginning, even though I was immersed in it. I still do not see how it was ever conceived, let alone became mainstream.
You’re thinking too much of an organized institution.
Go back to the roots. Children can be deathly afraid of the dark. This makes sense on a certain evolutionary scale: keep the vulnerable safely inside for the night.
Another cause, IMHO, is the habit of the brain to look for patterns, even seeing them where they don’t belong, say seeing animals in clouds or pyramids on Mars. The evolutionary advantage is a quicker recognition of danger; the disadvantage is seeing relationships that aren’t there: i.e. step on a crack = break your mother’s back.
Not exactly. What I’m trying to figure out is how a primitive hunter gatherer society had time or the will to think up some sky god shit when their daily struggle for survival was their primary concern. So let’s say that religion was not invented until after the early Neolithic when people had the opportunity to sit around all day and get fat because of agriculture. How the hell after 50,000 years of only trying to survive did they think up such an abstract idea when there were clearly a lot more pressing issues in their developing brain.
You mentioned Gobekli Tepe above, which actually predated agriculture. There is evidence that Neanderthals did ritual burials. So religion seems to be as old as the thinking mind.
You also see this magic with guns: evil people do bad things with guns = guns themselves are manifestly evil: they are not just inanimate objects with potential:
They are Totems, that magically create evil by their very presence/existence. I understand it in on a very visceral level.
More likely the start of religion was more like superstitions. Look at athletes who like to wear certain color socks. Rationally, sock color shouldn’t affect performance, but because someone had a good game while wearing that color, it becomes their lucky color. And it isn’t hard to imagine those ideas spreading. So let’s say Ug is the best hunter in a tribe and is teaching the other hunters how to hunt, some of those info might be useful info, some of it might be the equivalent of telling them to wear red socks.
So think of the prohibitions on shellfish or pork. Even if you don’t know what trichinosis or red tide disease are, you can spot a pattern that people who eat a lot of pork and shellfish tend to get sick a lot. So the effect of eating bad pork and shellfish is known, but the cause isn’t, so it’s kind of easy to slip into “God doesn’t want us eating those foods, punishing people that do, and rewarding those that don’t.”
I see religion more as an early form of science and rationality. We know things exist, why do they exist? Because something created them. Why did something create them?….Where did people come from? Something created them…and so on. Religion, to me, is was the first sign of the rational mind in hominids.
This is the obvious answer. It appears he’s i satisfied with it because he’s interested in discovering malevolent roots instead of rational ones.
Moses begins this section of rattling on with a discourse on how to treat lovely women who are captured in the endless inter-tribal battles. Now those heathen tribes, they just went ahead and raped anything with a vagina who rated over a 5. But Jews have to do it better. The law here is that you have to pen her up for a month first, shave her head, let her grow her nails, and only then, once she’s been humiliated, uglified, and left to ruminate for a month about the upcoming horror and remembering the vision of you eviscerating her parents in front of her, you can give her that good raping she’s been waiting for. Much more civilized, dontcha think?
Dunno, a month to either beg release, plan an escape or put together ransom does sound more civilized than standard practice. To put it bluntly, in a snatch-and-grab (no pun intended) situation, the other tribe is more likely to pay ransom if they can be reasonably assured the woman who comes back is not damaged goods.
Life’s tough for a bitch in the Fertile Crescent.
Mansplaining?
well knock me over with a feather- Chris Hedges condemns Antifa
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/antifa-mirrors-alt-right/
Of course, he shoehorns in his usual “because capitalism is bad” talking points.
***
Behind the rhetoric of the “alt-right” about white nativism and protecting American traditions, history and Christian values is the lust for violence. Behind the rhetoric of antifa, the Black Bloc and the so-called “alt-left” about capitalism, racism, state repression and corporate power is the same lust for violence.
The two opposing groups, largely made up of people who have been cast aside by the cruelty of corporate capitalism, have embraced holy war. Their lives, battered by economic misery and social marginalization, have suddenly been filled with meaning. They hold themselves up as the vanguard of the oppressed. They arrogate to themselves the right to use force to silence those they define as the enemy. They sanctify anger. They are infected with the dark, adrenaline-driven urge for confrontation that arises among the disenfranchised when a democracy ceases to function. They are separated, as Sigmund Freud wrote of those who engage in fratricide, by the “narcissism of minor differences.” They mirror each other, not only ideologically but also physically—armed and dressed in black, the color of fascism and the color of death.
***
He only dislikes them since they are turning the Left’s electoral chances sour.
Bull. The antifa are almost exclusively upper middle class whelps attending prestigious schools whose entire minority population is there either because their parents are alumn or because of weighted enrollment requirements.
The amount of poverty on the campus of, say, Berkley, is non existent.
Not really a rule, but every time you take a (((shit))) you’re supposed to say the asher yatzar; the prayer thanking G-d that you have the ability to excrete. I must admit I’ve been doing it whenever I pinch a solid one since getting over C. diff.
The only cure for C. diff is a shit transplant.
That was the next step if the 2 months of vancomycin didn’t work. On the plus side, I hit my out of pocket maximum after the first month. Sigh.
I’m really glad to hear that the vanco worked for you. I had a loved one who was not so fortunate, but I didn’t want to scare you even more than you were at the beginning by telling you about it.
Glad you are still here.
OT: What’s with all the bitching about Rick and Morty season 3? I just finished getting caught up and I think it rocks.
(((Salvation))) is free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ZKqE5dfU
Q seems a little drunk, NTTAWWT.
Bottom of the barrel. Err… comments.
Maybe…
Scotch is my friend.
Just sparked up a nice Macanudo, Tuesday night is getting fun.
I’m confused.
So are they.
clarification:
***
US authorities confirmed the test was successful and the B61-12 gravity bomb is expected to go into production within three years.
B61-12 gravity bombs, without a nuclear warhead, were dropped from F-15E fighter jets at Tonopah Test Range in Nevada on August 8, the National Nuclear Security Administration said.
The tests were intended to check the bomb’s “non-nuclear functions and the aircraft’s capability to deliver the weapon.”
A statement from the NNSA said: “B61-12 gravity bombs, without a nuclear warhead, were dropped from F-15E fighter jets at Tonopah Test Range in Nevada on August 8. The tests were intended to check the bomb’s ‘non-nuclear functions and the aircraft’s capability to deliver the weapon.”
***
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/847385/World-War-3-latest-US-nuclear-bomb-test-North-Korea-B61-12
Why are they testing and producing aircraft-delivered gravity bombs? I thought we had ICBMs.
The B61-12: the perfect weapon we don’t need to fight a war that won’t happen with money we don’t have.
You should, like, run for office or something.
She looks like a GOP congress critter from the northeast.
Nazi Fuckenfuckerfcknazfuckrfucnazifuckerfucknazinnanizfucnazi.
Spot the Not: Keith Olbermann
1. The corporation is one of the great unheralded human inventions of destruction.
2. I just think if you’re 44 years old and you’re not smarter than you were when you were 35 years old or 25 years old, just stay in your room.
3. Al Qaeda really hurt us, but not as much as Rupert Murdoch has hurt us, particularly in the case of Fox News. Fox News is worse than Al Qaeda — worse for our society. It’s as dangerous as the Ku Klux Klan ever was.
4. What was the more likely cause of the Oklahoma City bombing: talk radio or Bill Clinton and Janet Reno’s hands-on management of Waco, the Branch Davidian compound?…Obviously, the answer is talk radio. Specifically Rush Limbaugh’s hate radio….Frankly, Rush, you have that blood on your hands now and you have had it for 15 years.
5. I am again left to marvel how somebody can rise to a fairly prominent media position with no discernible insight or talent.
6. A loose definition of the Tea Party might be fifteen million pissed-off white people sent chasing after Mexicans on Medicaid by the small handful of banks and investment companies who advertise on Fox and CNBC.
I’ll go with 1.
4 is beautiful in its ability to make your jaw hit the floor.
Yeah, 4 is too unhinged to not be Olbermann. I wonder if he hoards cats in his attic while he rants in his basement.
Some people call me a hoarder, but I’d rather have too many dead cats than not enough.
/joke I heard from a comedian acquaintance
You need a better class of friends/anonymous internet people
#5. That has to be someone describing Olberman…or Ed Schultz
I think 1 was a BLM spokesperson, so I’m going with that.
6 is the Not. That is from Matt Taibbi, who is featured in the game below.
Yay! (Looks for my bourbon)
So Twitter will ban Olbermann, right?
RIGHT?!
Olbermann has 1 million followers.
Woods has 812k.
Apparently not true? I hate trying to decipher Twitter shit.
Keith OlbermannVerified account @KeithOlbermann
Keith Olbermann Retweeted Oliver Darcy
It’s @realjameswoods! His life is nothing but retweeting garbage memes from random accounts #NowRetiredFromShittyActing
Given all the other unhinged crap Olbermann tweets, it was certainly believable.
Yeah, someone posted a montage of his real (I think) TDS tweets and they were all full of f-bombs and assorted psychosis.
If you simply don’t go on Twitter, it’s much much much easier.
Torn between 5 and 6. Quote 5 is sort of picked out without any context, so I’m leaning towards that to be true. I’m going to guess 6, that sounds like a libertarian parroting a leftist than an actual leftist.
One of those quotes came from this guy:
Spot the Not: Matt Taibbi
1. Wall Street has turned the economy into a giant asset-stripping scheme, one whose purpose is to suck the last bits of meat from the carcass of the middle class.
2. I’m a product of an East Coast liberal arts educational system.
3. The one thing that I do is take really complicated systems and subjects and make them accessible to regular people.
4. The national debt is totally unlike a family budget for about a gazillion reasons, not the least of which being that families cannot raise money by fiat or deflate the size of their debt unilaterally and that family members die instead of existing infinitely.
5. The problem with the Tea Party is that it’s been used in a way that scares people into supporting an agenda that’s counter to their own interests.
6. They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet… in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pricks. We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don’t know about anything that’s happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing.
Is Taibbi another lefty journalist? Don’t know much about his brand of deep.
He is. Writes for Rolling Stone and is friends with the thoroughly despicable Mark Ames, who knocked up a teenager and threatened to kill her if she wouldn’t get an abortion.
Any particular articles that you “recommend” for me so that I make my guess on this game?
Also, I hold my choice for #6 for the 1st game. I think that’s the Taibbi quote based on the overall gist of the quotes you’re giving me in the 2nd game.
This is his most known article.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405
The derp is strong with him.
Is it bad that I read lefty articles about duh evul BANKZ with ((())) all over them? I mean, write this article 50 years ago and it would sound like National Socialist propaganda.
Lefties are grandmaster anti-Semites.
+1 Giant Vampire Squid
Lost me about 1/4 through. He’s like a blind man describing an elephant.
derp*
I’ll say 4, sounds too self-aware.
6 is the Not. That is from Michael Moore.
#4 came from this monstrosity:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-mad-science-of-the-national-debt-20130522
Burning Man: where rich Silicon Valley technocrats can pretend to relive Haight-Ashbury.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4346158/burning-man-2017-nevada-black-rock-city-desert-latest/
I’m going to visit a friend in a Reno after the Burners have all safely vacated back to the Bay Area and beyond. I do like looking at pics of the installations that are made. It turned from a wild crazy rave art thing to a very expensive elite type thing. I have friends that went in the early years and some that went a few years back and they all loved it, but I don’t imagine ever going now. I’m happy to go target shoot out there in the desert and then back to town to drink with old buddies, place a few sports wagers and eat at the awesome Basque family style restaurant downtown. Love me some Reno.
I got some Farmers’ today. Review forthcoming
Nice! Please do.
What is your standard bacon method? I think the best is in the oven at 400 on a shallow metal baking sheet. Super easy and gets a very uniform crispness without having to flip even once.
This redhead on HGTV has a helluva caboose.
i should TV.
Links or it didn’t happen.
Redheads are the devil’s spawn…the tasty, spicy spawn.
OK. Links.
I’ma sucker for a redhead every single crazy ass what is wrong with you time.
Mmmm, they so pretty and soooo crazy.
That bald lady made me think of V’ger and how hot a bald woman can be; but enough of that; I’ve had a strained lat on my left side for almost a week; fucking annoying.
Injuries to side muscles really suck, since it’s damn near impossible to not use them; I strained an oblique once upon a time, and it took three stinking weeks to heal, and hurt the whole time.
Inappropriate link.