One of my guilty pleasures is listening to Hate Radio during drivetime (and being stuck in the Chicago area, that’s a lot of time for remarkably short distances). In theory, I should be laughing equally at the remarkable stupidity of both brands of Hate Radio, but I have to admit that, at least here, Team Red seems to field radio hosts that are… well…. dull. The Team Blue Hate Radio is funnier, much less focus on the personality cult of the host and much more actual unhinged ranting.
In any case, the Team Blue Hate Radio guy in the morning seems to obsess a lot about Ronald Reagan and Reaganomics, especially how this drives today’s events. Now, despite the fact that Reagan left office almost 30 years ago, apparently everything, EVERYTHING, that’s wrong with our economy devolves back to him and his policies, the Universal Cause. Apparently, he destroyed the middle class through tax cuts, slashes in government spending, reduction of government size, and dramatic scaling back of entitlements. Lots of dark references to “trickle down” and “gutting of social programs to put money in the pockets of the wealthy.”
On the flip side, Reagan has been all but canonized by Team Red for all these same reasons- the man who slew the dragon of big government and reified the conservatism of forebears like Barry Goldwater. One would think that this should make him into a hero for libertarians: let us conveniently forget the ramping of the Drug War, the institution of urine collection, the expansion of the carceral state, the prosecution of media dealing with sex- all can be forgiven because of the economics, right? Team Red Hate Radio may be boring, but they never miss an opportunity to long for the fiscally conservative days of the pre-Alzheimer’s Gipper.
Since both Teams and their respective Hate Radio chimps seem to agree that Reagan was the Great Small Government Conservative, let’s look at the data, since in our modern world, we have the ability to make charts and graphs at will with just the click of the mouse. And here, thanks to the radio guy rants, I’ll look at taxes and spending only, putting aside that mysteriously disappearing middle class. One of the common tropes, Red and Blue, is that “Reagan cut taxes.” This statement assumes that the listener is too stupid to know the difference between taxes and tax rates.
Here’s a graph of government revenues over time:
Wow, look at how that went spiraling down in 1981-1989! Errrr… looking at all revenue must be a mistake, since there are revenue sources other than taxes. Where’s that tax graph? Oh, here it is!
Clearly, Saint Ronald slashed taxes because… oh, wait. Never mind. It must have been the entitlement taxes he slashed. I’m sure I have that graph around here…
That’s a dramatic Reagan-era tax cut, isn’t it? Ignore the sound of the narrative collapse, who are you gonna believe, a somewhat retarded radio guy or your lying eyes?
Well, of course all of this money we took in reduced the debt, right? Because of all that spending reduction by the Team Red Saint. Here’s proof:
Clearly, those conservatives did a great job of watching the public purse. Well, of course, that inflection point in the debt rise has to be attributed to defense, because spending on social programs was cut unmercifully by those green-eyeshades Reaganites. Any moron can see that:
Now that’s what I call spending cuts. Look at how precipitously welfare spending declined.
Clearly Team Red and Team Blue are both right- here’s a guy who galloped into battle with Leviathan and slew it, putting to rest permanently the idea of Big Government and unrestrained spending and growth of the state. I’m glad that the Hate Radio guys educated me so well.
TEAMIES full of shite? The Devil you say!
Thanks for the education, OM. I’m not all that swift on economics, but for my understanding it’d be good to see a graph along the same timeline that shows a measure or measures of the country’s economic strength. GDP?
Go here and hit the “max” tab.
Thanks, SS. So really, he maintained the status quo.
It went up, and fairly high in percentage terms – I am unsure of their measurement being fully adjusted for inflation, etc. I just spent all of 15 seconds googling and came up with that.
Status quo is called ‘defaulting to policy’. The Clinton camp gave their emails to Putin and that jumped out at me. Some top aides were discussing the thickness of the bullshit Hillary was spreading around and this popped out (paraphrased) “They can say whatever they want during the campaign but after the election they are EXPECTED TO DEFAULT TO POLICY.”
To me it came across like the candidate that wins doesnt really have that much to say about how they govern.
By status quo I was referring to the slopes’ of the graphs not seeming to be effected by Reagan’s being in office. So I agree with you, Suthen. The bureaucracy marches on, regardless of red v blue theater.
Contrary to the popular perception, Congress was in charge of taxes and spending even back in the 80’s. While the “Reagan Democrats” who ran Congress were perfectly willing to fund his military buildup that ultimately won the Cold War, and they reluctantly passed his tax cuts, they weren’t about to start slashing entitlement spending. They also didn’t interfere with Reagan accelerating the deregulation that Carter started.
Those charts give the Jack Kemp supply-siders a major chubby. I think Trump wants the same kind of growth curve from tax reform and deregulation – without as much in the way of a spending ramp up. That sounds good to me – not perfect but the best prospect we’ve had in a long time.
“without as much in the way of a spending ramp up”
I dunno, the DoD add ons and “Infrastructure” might add a cool trillion in debt. Wait until Congress starts larding those up…
I would love to see a nice deep cut into the DoD civilian workforce to offset any increase in the uniformed services. I can dream.
That, and were I DoD CZAR, I could carve up the Flag ranks, and their hangers on and save even more.
I wonder if Mattis plans to do just that. I’m sure he knows which are just political dead-weight.
From your keyboard to God’s eyes…
Maybe that’s why he took the job?
Insh’allah.
Related:
*rumbles with inchoate rage*
Things seemed to work much better when there were fewer generals and they made their decisions from the golf course.
Navy Seals had it right.
+1 Deputy Assst CG, HORSHTCOM
So I’m sure Saint Ronald, King of Small Government, set records vetoing all this spending bills. Lemme go make another chart…
They can afford to get rid of most of the generals. Back in my undergrad days I took a seminar on the history of the 1st Infantry Division in WWII that was taught by a retired BG who served with the division throughout the war. One of us asked him when he knew it was time to retire. He told us about being assigned to the Pentagon after the war as a Major and had a job to do in a small office. After he returned from serving as the 1st ID DCG in Vietnam he was assigned to the Pentagon to do the same job. The one desk had grown to several offices with numerous people but had the same span of control. That is when he knew it was time to retire.
Apparently, he destroyed the middle class through tax cuts, slashes in government spending, reduction of government size, and dramatic scaling back of entitlements. Lots of dark references to “trickle down” and “gutting of social programs to put money in the pockets of the wealthy.”
You left out my favorite- HE FIRED ALL THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS.
The carnage was epic. You couldn’t go a mile without skirting the smouldering wreck of an airliner which had dropped from the sky without a unionized government employee to keep it aloft.
I was disappoint he didn’t take the whole thing to its logical conclusion – privatize the whole system.
One of the few political memories of little Rhywun was mom – who was largely apolitical – raving positively about that event.
See, I thought Lil’ Rhywun’s earliest political memory would be of the Teapot Dome scandal or something.
*slow clap*
Please. I’m younger than half of you geezers.
Still means you’re older than the other half.
*waves to everyone*
I was young but not too young to appreciate that. The ATCs were awful and I got satisfaction out of seeing him fire their sorry asses.
it’d be good to see a graph along the same timeline that shows a measure or measures of the country’s economic strength. GDP?
Something really interesting would be a graph showing the displacement of the private investment component of GDP by government spending.
Chop chop.
359 comments on the morning Lynx? Good job mammals! Now when do the browser-choking taboola ads start?
NEVER!
Say, you couldn’t have a word or two with your orbital bombardment folks about targeting an office or two, could you?
*cough – Taboola HQ – cough*
Sigh, as I have explained to you insolent mammals before. Any orbital bombardment constitutes a planetary invasion (squirrel planets are excluded). And planetary invasions require a permit, BECAUSE TRUE DOMINEERING SPECIES HAVE TO DEAL WITH BLOATED SLOW BUREAUCRACIES.
And aside from waiting on a permit, any orbital bombardment would distract your species from the giant political shit show that Your Future Reptilian Overlords find so entertaining.
Not even one “negligent discharge”?
*offers Chicago padded handshake*
Wait. You live in Chee-ga-go and hate deep dish pizza? Gee, you’re like me and poutine!
You two are DEAD TO ME!
I live in New Jersey and love Taylor Ham (Pork Roll for you South NJ losers)!
Might be the only thing I like about the state.
What, you don’t like pizza, or disco fries?
Or the ocean? Or mountains and lakes?
I do like the woods and hills of Warren and Sussex counties.
There are NO mountains in Jersey.
Mount Olive!
Mountain ranges of New Jersey.
I dont hate things I dont eat.
I am not going to have to tell the ‘Doc it hurts when I do this…’ joke am I?
See, this is why we should have never let the wops into the country.
Let the dagos in, but not the wops.
I love deep dish. I love pizza. And I know that one thing is not the other.
You want my pizza casserole recipe?
I’ve seen it. It’s almost as good as those potatoes which threaten death that you love so much.
Oh man… I do love me some funeral potatoes…
That, and were I DoD CZAR, I could carve up the Flag ranks, and their hangers on and save even more.
What do they call that? More teeth, less tail?
Yup.
I would bring in the Two Bobs….”So, Admiral/General, what is it you do…?”
You could do the same to the legion of Assistant and Deputy SecDef types, and their hangers on.
Assistant Deputy Undersecretary of Glowbelt Enforcement
@#$% those safety belts…base I was on got a sniper warning, just as some #$%&ing E-9 was running around telling everyone to belt up or else.
More killers, fewer REMFs and Pouges.
When I was still in my proto-libertarian phrase, investigating new philosophies and political orientations, the right’s near sycophantic denial of reality when it came to the real Reagan vs. the fantasy Reagan that lived in their head helped to turn me off American-style conservatism in general.
Shortest explanation = Symbolic-Reagan (greater than) Real-Reagan
– Symbolic Reagan slayed the 1970s and all its malaise. And he tarred the left with all the problems of the 1970s, and it stuck to them for… oh about 28 years. Clinton only slipped in by pretending to be some ‘new thing’.
– Symbolic Reagan slayed communism (or was there when it collapsed) which resonated with his defeat of the 1970s. It was confirmation that “his ideas” were the right ones.
– He actually made Americans proud of economic prosperity. American cars might still suck, but we were going to be The Best at everything else if we could. We saw economic competition with Japan as a challenge to overcome rather than a sign of our failing vigor.
– He basically set the mold for how the Right in America identified itself politically. It doesn’t matter if the numbers show that none of his bluster about cutting taxes and shrinking govt were *true*; what matters is that he proved that TALKING about that shit helped you win elections.
Basically, he gave the American Right a playbook to use. And whenever Republicans get depressed, all you ever had to say was, “Remember Reagan!!” and it would cheer them up.
Contrarily, the Left (not democrats) never forgave him for the brutal thrashing he gave their own symbolic-appeals. You still can’t call yourself a “socialist” anything in this country without 80% of the population giving you the fish eye. Which is why Millenials – who never knew Reagan – are the great hope of the Left, because they are immune from his influence.
Ironically, Trump has borrowed some stuff from the real Reagan playbook. He invented talking right past the liberal media to the people and making it “us against them” elections.
a footnote to this =
as others have noted,
– (contrary to popular myth) the White House doesn’t drive the Economy. And the parts of govt that *do* influence the economy the most? tend to have long-lags between implementation and actual results.
– the most significant influence a political leader can have? is to influence changes in the direction and amount of business-investment.
But it requires a mix of conditions that needs to be mutually supporting. Mere jawboning by itself won’t cut it (see: Obama). You can’t talk a big “i support American businesses” game if you don’t have congress on your side, and some plausible, attainable goals.
It doesn’t even matter all that much if many of the things you claim you’re going to do never come entirely to fruition – because the important thing is that a president has convinced businesses to prepare for a different future than the one they had previously been accustomed to.
Its hard to explain how much more significant “changes in direction” are compared to mere “changes of numbers” when it comes to markets. Markets are all about the future, not the ‘right now’, and everything hinges on the direction of trends, not necessarily the immediate strength of those trends.
Basically the case i’m making here is that Reagan provided a needed ‘tipping point’ for capital investment. Whether he came through with his tax-cutting/govt shrinking bluster was ultimately irrelevant because he created the conditions for plausible changes in the business environment. And once businesses commit to that change of direction, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy (provided lots of other conditions just coincidentally happen to support those decisions).
That’s sort of the “magic trick” which Regan pulled off which everyone else has struggled to imitate.
To your point…there is this.
Whether it’s causal or luck…
Bill Niskanen breaks down the actual individual components of Reaganomics here
my point was about how govt actions are far more about their “signaling effect” than they are the material one.
Niskanen points out that headline tax cuts on individuals and businesses were offset by broadening the tax-base; my case is that ‘where’ those cuts happened were more significant than the amounts –
because signaling to business that “you will be able to keep a larger share of your profits in the future than you will today” has an enormous effect on business-planning; you start building for that theoretical future.
It only works if you actually *believe it*, however. and credibility often needs a whole lot of mutually supporting conditions which aren’t things necessarily within the govt’s control. Call that “luck”, or call it being in the right place at the right time.
Fuck signaling, cut spending.
the question was “why did reagan get away with it”
not ‘what is my personal recipe for governance’.
Unfortunately the lesson that the GOP took from Reagan was that symbolism was more important than action and results.
I think that’s been a political assumption going back to (at least) the Romans
e.g. From Spartacus
Reagan made optimism cool again. That’s worth something.
”So, Admiral/General, what is it you do…?”
“I’m a people person, dammit. I boss people around. That’s what I do.
Excellent article OMWC.
“Reagan was the government”
In some ways it doesnt matter who we elect. The prevailing character of the citizenry determines how the ship is steered.
I’ve told this joke before but I will again. It’s my version of a Yakovism: You think you steer ship but in America ship steer you.
Ah yes, the time honored tradition of Libertarian virtue signalling.
I do libertarian signalling by putting on my hazards and driving directly through the traffic circle.
Oh goddammit, we’re going to get people saying this place is virtue signaling and then starting their own splinter site aren’t we.
(have I ever mentioned I’ve lost my ability to tell what is and what isn’t sarcasm?)
Gliberertarians?
gliberaltarians? glibercontarians?
It’s Thursday, right?
Jiggletarians.
Thiccitarians
Wut?
Slapping around St. Ronnie’s legacy is virtue signalling, I guess.
Reagan was a mixed bag, as most President’s are. He did some really good stuff, and some really bad stuff. Team thinking requires that you focus exclusively on one or the other. Not focussing exclusively on the bad stuff makes you a Team Red deplorable; not focussing exclusively on the good stuff makes you a virtue signalling crypto-proggy, I guess?
Nah, not crypto-proggy, just rubs me wrong when someone says things that are true (Reagan a mixed bag, not a panacea of government restraint) but with a heavy dollop of “see, we aren’t like them!!!” in it.
Somewhat akin to Hank Phillips on “The Other Site” couching true things within his usual disdain of religion in general and christians in particular. To be completely fair to OMWC, it was not anywhere near that level.
Then again, I moved over to the Libertarian viewpoint from conservatism, so this could just be my own latent tribal instincts, in which case you have my apologies
WTF? Reuters, via NYT (no link, as this is pretty much the extent of the “news”-
The Peoria Journal Star newspaper reported that law enforcement officials were seen entering Caterpillar’s headquarters. Some people were wearing jackets with the Internal Revenue Service logo, the paper said.
The newspaper also said a placard in the window of one of the federal vehicles noted it was used by police from the U.S. Department of Commerce Bureau of Industry and Security Office of Export Enforcement.
Have those bastards in Peoria been selling our top secret bulldozer tech to teh ROOOOOOSKEES?
In my lifetime the boogeymen have been the Soviets, the Japanese (they’re going to buy everything!), the Chinese (they’re going to buy everything!), Middle Eastern Terrorists… now it’s back to the Russkies? I can’t keep up.
I miss the Japanese menace. It inspired some terrific art.
Cyberpunk just isn’t the same without street samurai and cyborg ninjas.
They were fools if they did. The Ruskies ordered a zillion dollars worth of Cats a few years back so Cat started building them and after they had sunk nearly everything they had into producing that order the Ruskies backed out. They damned near put Cat out of business.
Cat probably had to do some creative book keeping to stay afloat. If that is the case the IRS should just fuck off. Ok, the IRS should fuck off even if that isn’t the case.
After the Gibson guitar thuggery by the O sycophants this seems like the sort of thing Trump would want to avoid, especially after his speech touting all of the jobs he created or saved.
Maybe it was just a matter of being a teenager, but the Reagan years seemed a lot more economically optimistic and robust than other administrative period I’ve lived through.
yeah, if you ignore the huge spike in unemployment in his first term….
…and the continued skyrocketing violent-crime rate of his second term… everything was pretty much Michael Jackson Eating Big Mac On The Space Shuttle sorts of Awesome!
(*i tried to think of some way of slipping a mention of AIDS in there, but i’m too lazy)
Reagan personally murdered Ryan White.
There you go.
What’s odd about that graph is that “headline” unemployment (which is what I assume they are tracking) spiked, but the laborforce participation rate was basically flat.
O/T, but this is too funny, saw this at AoS….Claire McCaskill on Twitter today re: Jeff Sessions:
Claire McCaskill four years ago on Twitter:
This has the possibility of being a rare win-win situation – the Donks come off looking like the fucking clowns they are, and Sessions gets forced from office.
The Sessions appt is the number one worry I have about Trump. Seeing him gone would be nice but…who would take his place?
Also, what is with Trump and Pot? Why does he have a hard-on over pot?
Well, there’s an Iron Law working here, too:
You get more of what you reward, and less of what you punish.
Giving the deep state, the Dems, and the useful idiots the scalp of a just-confirmed AG would be a huge reward, would encourage more of this kind of dishonest/underhanded Trump attacks on the administration, and would go a long way toward crippling the Trump administration. I’m not ready yet to say I think the Trump administration needs to be crippled. If our worst fears about what Session would do as AG are true, is it worth it to strangle the administration in the cradle and go back to business as usual?
Good point RC. Short circuiting Sessions really should come about because of someone else. A president just out of office who moves two miles from the whitehouse and devotes himself and his former staff to unseating his successor worries me more than a Sessions led war on pot. A lot more. That is some dangerous real banana republic bullshit. The Dems are out of control and letting them have any kind of victory would be a mistake.
Hilarious that McCaskill got herself caught up in the controversy without ever being nominated for anything.
Excellent Alinskyite work.
“Oh, so Senators meeting with Russian ambassadors is a bad thing, likely to be collusion or worse, that we need to investigate? Okey-dokey. Here’s your subpoena, Sen. McCaskill.”
Less Ronnie. More thicc.
OMWC, stop trying to confuse the issue with your “data” and “time-function” dollar plot doohickies. These actual “spending metrics” scare and confuse me.
Didn’t he invent crack? or was that Bush?
I believe he invented AIDS and unleashed it on the gayz
I knew it was something.
If you haven’t polished your schadenfreude boner recently, here’s a roundup of Dewey Defeats Truman-style cartoons to work up a good lather.
Count up the instances someone refers to the inspiration of Madame President, becauses SHE is a WOMAN. Policy? History? Actual, you know, achievements? Nah brah lol she’s great ‘cuz she gives good speeches and she is a WOMAN.
This is supposed to be the class of high-power intellects?
Ugh, what complete sycophantic nonsense. The watercolor one is the stupidest piece of trash, my 5-year-old daughter could do a par job.
Rebecca Clarke
GQ: Did you feel personally involved in her campaign?
RC: did not feel even 10 percent as involved as I had felt with Bernie, and by the end felt okay about voting for Hillary.
…
RC: That time she help authorize the Iraq War II was kewl too.
GQ: Okay I think I’ve recorded what I need, now you can get back to it.
RC: *head bobs up and down and she works the shaft*
And that’s from the first one. Oh man, this is going to be a slog…
Wait till you get to the crayon and fecal smears art.
You know who else valued culture and art?
Ongo Bablogian?
Gablogian. I need more coffee.
We’re not here to talk nonsense to Bob Loblaw.
Oh, I love his law blog.
You know who else was the leader of a powerful nation and suffered from a brain malady*?
* yeah, yeah, probably didn’t actually have syphilis…
Caligula?
As far as I recall, syphilis is was likely a New World pathogen.
JFC… when did GQ become woke-central?
Sycophants disgust me. Pure cult of personality material. Boy, does that artwork ever say a lot about them.
*quickly rubs skin on arms simultaneously*
Now If I could just get the heebie jeebies to go away.
I also will blame him for the shitty cars.
I suppose Ford is somewhat at fault. Seriously, who was designing cars then?
Buildings too. What was with the cold war? “Oh this is a nice brick of a building.”
Ralph Nader
And the Unions.
Let’s not forget the EPA.
To be fair, the charts are a little misleading. There were some fairly pronounced developments in 1981-1983. Federal revenue growth slowed dramatically in 1981 and actually fell in 1982. After years of steady increases non-defense outlays actually fell in 1982. These barely show up in the charts because the numbers have just increased so steadily across the board.
Was Reagan perfect? Far from it. But, I’ll respond with a question, can anyone name me a president since who wouldn’t react as if you were an escapee from an asylum if you suggested reducing the size and scope of government?
One of the ways I try to prove to progs that I’m not a Team Red member is that I talk shit about Ronald Reagan’s supposed fiscal conservative bona fides. I even sometimes say that I especially dislike how he discredited ideas that I hold dear. It rarely works, even though I am insulting a Team Red saint, they still can’t grasp someone who isn’t aligned with a Team.
How old is Glibertarians?
And already we can see how Chapman, and Dalmia, and Soave, and Gillespie wormed their way in.
It’s not noting that Reagan was a mixed bag. He was a politician–and it is very true that it was his ‘signaling’ more than his actions that relieved the malaise
It’s the insinuation that anyone not screaming Reagan’s faults from a mountaintop any time he’s mentioned is stupid that turns the trick.
Remember Conquest’s Law
See it, know it, fight it.
Well, my issue was with the idea that he was the Original Evil whose tax and spend reduction ways destroyed the US. That’s what the Hate Radio guy claims, and not only is his conclusion stupidly wrong, his premise is ignorantly or mendaciously wrong (which is the point of this article)- Reagan was just one more tax and spend hack, no different than the others.
Your hockey stick graphs don’t fool me, this was a good article/blog. (What is it on the web…blog/article/treatise/rant at cloud?)