I’ve just finished The Campus Rape Frenzy, by K. C. Johnson and Stuart Taylor, Jr. The subtitle – The Attack on Due Process at America’s Universities – should dash any false hopes that this book is a STEVE SMITH adventure. It’s about how the federal government forced – or probably the right word is egged on – colleges to provide inadequate hearings for male students accused of sexual misconduct.
The usual scenario is that Bob
and Betty
two hypothetical students at Hypothetical U, both drink a lot of booze, then get together and have sex.
Later, sometimes much later, Betty decides that she was raped and, after failing to persuade the real-world judicial system of the reality of the crime (or neglecting to report the alleged crime to the real-world judicial system at all), takes the case to the campus “justice” system.
In the name of being Tough on Rapists, the federal government – invoking the anti-sex-discrimination statute, Title IX – has encouraged the campus SJWs who were already pressing for making campus “courts” accuser-friendly. The campus “judges” are students, administrators and faculty who have been trained to view accusers sympathetically and to be on the lookout for those predatory rapists responsible for 1 in 5 or 1 in 4 coeds getting sexually assaulted. These “judges” are warned that the idea of large numbers of false accusations is a myth, and “only” 2%-8% of accused men are actually innocent. These statistics are phony, as the authors show.
Never mind, though – combined with the “judges’” training is their ability to ignore many traditional due-process restraints on their power, restraints which might allow the accused man to throw a wrench or two in the accusation. The “courts” can put the defendant on trial on really short notice, they can limit his right to cross-examine the accuser, invoke the assistance of a lawyer, or present evidence in his own favor (there’s a lot of cases where the texts the “victim” sent at the time of the “rape” are not consistent with the behavior of the victim of such a crime, but the “judges” aren’t always interested in seeing these texts).
Sometimes the trial is conducted by one person hired by the college to conduct and investigation and reach a verdict, without holding a full-dress hearing in front of both parties as in traditional Anglo-American trials. The judge/investigator just interviews the witnesses, gives the accused a (perhaps incomplete) summary of what the witnesses said, and then reaches a verdict.
It almost gets to be like the old joke of the judge who didn’t want to hear the other side because hearing both sides tended to confuse him.
The bottom line is Bob is branded a rapist and suspended or expelled. It’s kind of hard for him to get another college to accept him, and many employers, seeing that the guy was branded a rapist, will be like “don’t call us, we’ll call you.”
So if Bob or his family has enough money he can sue, and maybe win or maybe lose. But any victory, while it benefits Bob, doesn’t necessarily benefit the next guy who comes along accused of rape in the Kampus Kangaroo Kourt.
And if there actually was a rape? In that case only the real-world justice system can impose the prison sentence needed to keep the rapist away from the public for term of years. Throwing an actual rapist out of college and out onto the streets seems a tad lenient, and not entirely safe.
.jpg "It looks like the inmates in this cell block only got a C in not-raping.")
Johnson and Taylor have all sorts of perfectly sensible ideas for reform, but I want to focus on one idea they reject.
Johnson and Taylor indicate that it might be desirable to discourage students from getting drunk and screwing. This might annoy Jimmy Buffett (NSFW), as well as the “don’t blame the victim – teach rapists not to rape” crowd. But such discouragement is a good idea as far as it goes. Rape accusations flourish, as a practical matter, in vaguely-remembered encounters which may be regretted once sober, adding to which is how easy it is (according to university regulations) for alcohol to make consent to sex irrelevant. And current dogma means that if both Bob and Betty are drunk when they have sex, Bob is raping Betty but not vice versa. How colleges reconcile this doctrine with Title IX’s ban on sex discrimination is unclear, but that’s how the system operates.
But Johnson and Taylor don’t go all the way (so to speak). They frown on drunken sex, but they scoff at the idea of discouraging student sex in general. They acknowledge that, given the kind of cases which lead to these “he said/she said” controversies, a good survival strategy might be “celibacy,” but the authors dismiss this as a “nonstarter[]” which “few will find appealing.” College students in the past – often from necessity – often managed not to rut like bunnies while pursuing their studies, but I suppose the idea is that we’re a more sophisticated, liberated, non-taboo-having, healthier people today.
What if colleges simply stopped encouraging student sex? That could make moot the question of how to handle drunken hookups by their students.
Don’t mistake my meaning – I am speaking of the separation of college and sex, not the abolition of sex itself, although of course as you know abolishing sex is the ultimate objective of the Catholic conspiracy.
Colleges can only do so much, and training the horniness out of its students is something which is beyond their capacity. But that doesn’t mean a college should provide boinking facilities for its students. No using dorms as sleepover facilities, fraternity would-be orgies, etc.
When I worked as a student dormitory assistant, checking students into and out of their rooms, I felt like the clerk at a sleazy hotel. My job wasn’t to keep the guys out of the girls’ rooms or vice versa, but to make sure they left their student IDs at my office before going upstairs for their…whatever it was they did (probably not canasta).
Did colleges put up with this sort of thing in the past? No – although students weren’t any less horny than today. College education wasn’t as near-universal as now, you needed some money or enough talent to get a scholarship, but if you had one of these qualifications there were plenty of institutions to choose from. But generally, the colleges at least made an effort to keep the students on the straight and narrow.
Mandatory chapel. Curfews. If the college admitted women (not a given), then there was separation between the sexes, and social events needed chaperones.
Most students wouldn’t put up with that today. But that’s all right, most students don’t need to be at a modern residential college.
We’re in a situation where colleges and universities ought to downsize anyway. A four-year sojourn at a residential college (often involving indebtedness and fairly sketchy post-college plans for promptly paying off that indebtedness) is not an essential part of every young person’s life, if it ever was.
There are some career paths which may require studying at a residential college, some career paths which may call for online education (dropping by the local public library for proctored exams), and some career paths which may call for a good high school education (where it can be found) and/or an apprenticeship.
And there are some people who may still go in for a liberal arts education as defined by Cardinal Newman – learning for its own sake, including the things associated with being a learned person, including theology, the “queen of the sciences.”
In each of these situations, the college can separate itself from enabling its students’ sex lives.
If a student is working on his or her online degree while holding down a job, then their college life and social life will run on separate tracks, for the most part, or if they get together with other students it will be off campus and they’ll have signed all sorts of forms that the college won’t be liable for broken hearts, broken bones, disease, death, etc., resulting from independently developing relationships with other students.
Or if students are taking one of those intensive courses of study which requires a residential program, they should be warned to do their foolishness (if any) while they’re off campus.
And at least in theory, nontraditional-age students supplementing their education, often online or through occasional visits to campus for class purposes, will have homes of their own and any kinkiness they do will be in those homes (and they should ask their spouses first, if any).
And for those few liberal-arts residential colleges which survive the coming shakeup of higher education – those colleges should be unashamedly elitist, recruiting students who are actually committed to a course of study, with socializing with the other sex limited to chaperoned activities like in earlier times.
(If a young man and woman meet at a residential college (or before going) and decide to get married, then of course after their marriage the college should put them in married-student housing.)
I guess the one downside to my scheme would be that it would force the SJW “student life” bureaucrats to get other work.
!["As long as you're looking, can you find [insert name of unpopular sports player]'s talent?"](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Microscopes_in_art#/media/File:Santiago_Ram%C3%B3n_y_Cajal_(8691434507).jpg "\"As long as you're looking, can you find [insert name of unpopular sports player]'s talent?\"")
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97 responses to “Separation of college and sex”
It seems like there’s also been a separation of college and education.
On that note, I have some good news for everyone. The Jacket has made it official and declared that libertarians have totally won the culture war.
WE WON! HOORAY!
*sodomizes Mexican while taking a massive rip off a bong*
Gillespie has the reasoning ability of a bloated walrus carcass.
Repent all you sinners for the Libertarian Moment is at hand.
I saw the headline and laughed. I wonder what defeat would have looked like.
Another such victory and we are lost.
I first misread the title as “My Campus Rape Frenzy”
Have to say I’m a little disappointed that’s not the case.
STEVE SMITH NEVER DISAPPOINT. WRITE OWN BOOK, AND BY WRITE MEAN RAPE
Just to be a shitlord here, rape is about the only interesting thing one can imagine in Betws-y-coed.
All the good women are over in Dwygyfylchi anyway.
I had to look that place up, and then discovered that apparently, just calling it Penmaenmawr isn’t Welsh enough or something.
To many vowels in Penmaenmawr.
I remember being stranded in Penmaenmawr after missing the last train on a Saturday night. Not sure what was worse. Going to sleep cold and damp in a rail shelter on a Saturday night, or simply waking up on a Sunday in Penmaen.
“Cold and damp” could describe anywhere in Britain, so I’d say waking up still stuck in the unique hell of northern Wales wins.
You could try your luck in Llandewi Breffi, if you’re of, uh, a certain persuasion.
KC Johnson was sounding this alarm when nobody else was listening.
Thankfully things have changed a bit since he started (with the Duke Lacrosse case); it’s not just rich kids that can file suit. FIRE and other organizations have gotten on the case. I’m not optimistic we’ll see anything change though.
As someone who taught in college, I’m not optimistic either. These institutions currently have shown zero inclination to change their ways and sacrificing the careers and reputations of a few good people (mostly men) in order to advance The Progressive Ideology is well, well worth it.
Or, more likely, it’s the goal.
I guess the one downside to my scheme would be that it would force the SJW “student life” bureaucrats to get other work.
Which is why true reform will never actually happen.
Where would people like that get meaningful employment after they’re fired?
Exactly. They will fight tooth and nail to preserve their phony-baloney jobs.
Harumph, harumph!
Thank you! Finally!
Hey, I didn’t get a “Harumph” out of that guy!
True reform will occur when the gravy train ends. Kill federally guaranteed student loans and all of this will start to unwind.
I guess having your life destroyed on the mere say-so of a woman without regard to actual evidence is more of that Male Privilege.
That’s exactly what they want. It won’t end at colleges; there are already some voices in the debate saying that this “yes means yes” bullshit should be state law.
Yeah, I have no doubt that the colleges are the testing grounds to try to change the rules of evidence in court regarding alleged rape.
I saw the Kangaroo imagery and just assumed this had something to do with the High Court of Australia
Where women glow and men chunder?
Is that the lyrics? For 35 years I’ve been to lazy to look up the lyrics.
I thought “He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich” was “He just smiled and gave me a bite of MY sandwich”. And somehow that made sense to me.
Gap yah?
“Glow”, I always thought they said where women blow.
Fred Reed has annihilated our current college system on several occasions.
What if a couple of college guys ran a train on an underage co-ed who then cried rape? But… it turns out that the guys are actually of a protected-victim class? What’s a SJW to do in this case?
Silly rabbit.
She wouldn’t report it, because her friends, who are totes woke, will realize that it’s a cultural thing.
They really are at the point where being raped by an illegal immigrant or Muslim “refugee” is just something to be tolerated occasionally.
Gotta break a few eggs to make the tasty multicultural omelette.
Gotta
breakforcibly fertilize a few eggs to make the tasty multicultural omelette.German Judge Says Turkish Man’s Forced Violent Sex Is ‘Culturally’ Not Rape
Sounds like you can get away with just about anything in Germany if you’re too stupid to know better or you’re a savage.
STEVE SMITH NOW STEVEHAMMAD AL SMITHLAKI!
Intersectionality, the last refuge of the rapist.
Pack it up folks, the Enlightenment is officially over.
This isn’t going to end well for the Muzzies. There’s a limit to what the native populace will tolerate.
Maybe – the Germans are pretty damn weird.
Lie back and think of Mecca,
I just finished Camille Paglia’s latest book (Free Women, Free Men) this weekend. From some of the essays in there, the kampus kangaroo kourt has been around since the 90s. It got a really nice nudge from the DoE’s Dear Colleague letter, though.
public education is one long case study of how when participants fail to reform a system, they choose to exit instead.
I’m sure there are some hot townies wherever you’re at. Leave the rape princesses to the profs.
This. If I were in college these days, I wouldn’t touch a college girl with a ten meter cattle prod. Too risky.
And if female part of the student body starts doing the same, it can only be a positive development. Social advancement through marriage is a fine tradition with much to recommend it.
That was the advice I gave my grandson. Though not in those exact terms.
“Never stick your dick in crazy”?
Seems simple enough, Colleges and Universities should stop being hoteliers. If it didn’t occur on campus property, then, not our problem. Unfortunately they have the exact opposite attitude. With all the federal dollars coming in they can undercut any competition. In the area I’m from there was a private apartment complex for the local college students. It went under and was purchased by that college.
how would a potential employer find out about a campus disciplinary action? Is that sort of thing public record?
Also, I’m pretty sure that’s a wallaby. Just saying.
Click the photo and go to the source page – it says it’s a kangaroo.
Employers often say “in order to consider your application, we need you to give us access to your college record,” which would include any official notice that the guy was “convicted” of sexual assault.
Generally, I link to the source photo, because even when people make their photos available for copying, they stipulate that they must get credit.
So I encourage everyone to click and learn about the wonderful artists who provided these photos.
Even if the disciplinary records aren’t public, the men usually have their names printed in the local paper, and that’ll show up if the employer does a Google search on them.
Also, that wallaby identifies as a kangaroo, shitlord.
When I was in college, one of my sorority sisters and this frat guy had a habit of hooking up every single time they drank. They couldn’t stand each other when sober. I remember one particularly debauched mixer where a good 2/3 of the frat we were with were passed out all over the house, and the girl’s friends were begging the girl not to go with him for what felt like 45 minutes. Then she and the guy went in the bathroom to do it while her big stood outside the door screaming at them that they better be using a condom.
I think of them every time I see one of these hyped-up “rape” cases that turn out to be drunken hookups. I only graduated 10 years ago, and I don’t think it would have crossed anyone’s mind to accuse this guy of rape back then. I can’t believe how quickly college has changed.
We’re you invited to the wedding?
That does sound like about half the married couples I know.
/sends link to SP…
This came out over 10 years ago. At the time it was pure satire but nowadays I wonder how seriously this would be taken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-gu6s0eGOk
A year or two ago this girl on campus claimed that she was raped by another student in her dorm room. I don’t know whether the accusation was true or not but she reported the rape six months after it happened. The school administrator sympathized with her and asked her if she contacted the Chicago PD. The accuser said no but said the school should still throw the guy out since she had evidence that he was in her dorm room. The school pretty much told her that they would look into it but since it was six months after the fact along with not contacting the authorities, there wasn’t much they could do.
She went on FB and accused the school of being unresponsive towards rape victims.
But was she unresponsive?
Is “Polanskiing” a thread a thing?
My best advice for anyone entering college is don’t interact with anyone, ever. Just get a single dorm room, go to class, never raise your hand, don’t go to parties, bars, or group study, find yourself a quite corner of the library to study, don’t join a frat/sorority, don’t make friends of any kind.
This is my advice for basically everything in life.
It’s worked for me so far.
Yeah, sadly this is the best advice for every male these days. Interact with a girl on campus, risk being accused of rape/sexual harassment. Interact in any way beyond what the job requires with a girl at work, risk being talked to by HR for making her “uncomfortable.” Interact with females at your own risk. A life of celibacy and by yourself is the safest way to go.
I learned that the hard way. I used to hang out with this coworker and one day I overheard her talking with another coworker about getting the cafe supervisor fired. After she was done, I told her that if she has a problem with the supervisor, perhaps talk to her about and try to solve the problem among themselves before getting upper management involved.
A couple of days later, I came into work and the General manager asked me to come into her office and the District manager was there too. They told me that the coworker accused me of sexually harassing her and told me to go home for a couple of days while they sort this out. I came back a couple of days later and was told that I was fired even though the evidence of me harassing her was low and my coworkers vouched for me. They told me that they didn;t want to risk a lawsuit.
From that day forward, my dealing with coworkers of the opposite sex is borderline Amish.
Yikes! I always had a rule not to associate too much with my female co-workers. I’m nice but make sure I don’t get in a position (!) where I can be accused of sexual harassment. We had a VP – who was in HR, of all places! – get the can because of too many sexual jokes and innuendo with his female employees.
I’ve broken my rule exactly once, luckily with no blow back (or even a blow job).
Being older and wiser, I had to council a youngin to use his better judgement and be careful what he says and how he acts when it comes to his female coworkers. He didn’t heed my advice and sure enough he got shit canned because a female coworker felt uncomfortable around him.
I feel bad for women who actually want to bond with their male coworkers but can’t because of the increased paranoia among male workers about getting fired. They have their feminist comrades to thank for the toxic environment they have created in the work place.
This is fundamentally an issue of the ways in which the federal government skirts around the Tenth Amendment using
tax dollarsfiat money.Because the feds control the student loan market, they have the universities by the gonads. And because the universities are not considered part of the government, even though they may be in practice, the more exuberant statists in the bureaucracy and out have found an opportunity, namely to push legal doctrines and methods that would not survive an actual court.
The solution is not a separation of colleges and sex, it is a separation of colleges and government. It is a popping of the higher ed bubble. The federal student loan guarantee must be eliminated and the Department of Education razed to the ground. If the States wish to continue the folly that the Department is currently fostering, that will be their prerogative, but they must do so with their own constituents tax dollars and without the ability to print more in leaner years.
RE: Missed the conversation about how musicians are failing to be subversive and just absorb themselves into ‘the Man’, but Paul Joseph Watson has something to say about that.
OMG I love him and want to marry him.
But he’s got hair!
That can be remedied. His bigger handicap is that he’s, like, 20 years younger than I am and I ain’t no cougar.
So not even, what, three weeks after the NYT’s told us that Obama was going to stay out of politics (at least until the primaries start – hint hint), the guy just can’t help himself. He called for the Republican Congress – the one that ignored him when he was still in the White House – to have courage and not touch his legacy policy. The NYT’s, for their part, is just going to forget it ever wrote its previous article which implied how cool and classy Obama was for staying out of it all and instead just breathe a sigh of relief that their prophet has returned to them.
What a load of fucking shit. He shat all of the GOP legislators whenever he had a chance but suddenly he wants them to protect his legacy. What a vapid piece of shit.
Anyone who says that is racist, ipso facto.
The funny thing is he is so stupid that he doesn’t realize that the ONLY way his legacy is getting protected is if they DO mess with it.
Just like when they shut down the government over the roll out of the exchanges what Obama actually needed was the 6 – 12 month delay the Republicans were trying to force on him and rather than bargaining to get something extra in the deal in exchange for the delay they wanted to force on him he decided to go for short term wins in letting them take the hit for shutting the government down. He’s doing the same thing here. Obamacare is in a death spiral, if the Republicans do absolutely nothing it is going to crash and burn in the next 2 years leaving Obama’s legacy at the bottom of a mile deep smoking radioactive crater, if they mess with it, no matter how small the changes then he can always shift the blame for it’s inevitable collapse onto those changes and salvage his reputation
More Male Privilege: “After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, “men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do,” and “[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.” This gender gap is about six times as large as the racial disparity that Prof. Starr found in another recent paper.”
Link to the correct paper.
NEEDZ MOAR FOOTNOTES
This chick looks like she’s getting Kipnis’ed.
Don’t we talk about the Nazi era in terms of people who were too afraid to speak up in the face of brown-shirted thugs? Hhmm…
Academic needs to be in scare quotes. This is how these people actually talk to one another in private.
And this
The moral spine of sea cucumbers.
Found this linked in the comments, and thought it was interesting.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-words-words-words/
I’d never heard of “motte-and-bailey doctrine” before, but it’s a useful way of looking at the tactics used by SJW’s (and others as well).
Sometimes the trial is conducted by one person hired by the college to conduct and investigation and reach a verdict, without holding a full-dress hearing in front of both parties as in traditional Anglo-American trials.
The 6th Amendment is totally old (written with a quill pen!) and not in any way relevant to the world of iphone text messages.
It’s the feds trying to require the colleges – which aren’t bound by the 6th amendment – to prosecute these cases.
That doesn’t protect them from lawsuits, however, and there are several male victims who have been successfully pursuing colleges in court over this.
Yes indeed – so far, though, using the 6th Amendment hasn’t worked – one could argue that the feds have to use 6th amendment procedures to target alleged criminals rather than farm it out to colleges, but I don’t think there’s yet been a decision to that effect.
It’s the feds trying to require the colleges – which aren’t bound by the 6th amendment – to prosecute these cases.
The Sixth exists for good reason. Allowing anyone to present hearsay and prohibit the accused from confronting the witnesses against him is bullshit.